exagony seems to be lumpy all airline employees together and that''s just WRONG!!!!! When I got furloughed in Jan of 02, I went out and worked night frieght for Home Depot + delivered pizza for dominoes....I had a two year old son with my wife pregnant with our second...I was working 80 hours a week and two jobs just to make ends meet....And guess what, both of those jobs, had us "lazy furloughed airline employees" working there....Times are bad, for everyone I agree, but I think airline employees have been hit a little harder then most...and depending on where you live is what kind of JOBS are avail....I live in a thriving city with many jobs, but I had to BEG for a job at Home Depot and Dominoes because many employers are skeptical about hiring airline employees....especially right after 9/11......it''s hard for an employer to justify training someone who may leave down that road....And I understand that fully, because as soon as a found a flying job that paid better than the regionals, i jumped at it.......Exagony....think before you speak!!!! There are many of us furloughed employees working our butt''s off, paying tax dollars, that would gladdly give anything we can to our fellow furloughees!!!!!! Good luck to All!!!
How you can help your fellow furloughed employees!
- Thread starter usfliboi
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airlineorphan
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Actually, given the way the economy is in the toilet, and joblessness keeps jumping, I think unemployment extensions shold be given to all unemployed people. And that''s what I''m telling my congressional representative.
-Airlineorphan
-Airlineorphan
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
sm8fvr -- you should be proud! You have my admiration.
But if you believe that only furloughed airline employees are special and deserving of extra benefits then I must strongly disagree with you.
Your loyalties are clear and unchallenged -- first your family and then your professional brethren and you should be free to support both however you choose.
I choose not to support an outdated business model along with the current and former employees who will insist on forcing me to pay for them to cling to the notion that they "will prevail" and brand me as anti-employee just because I don''t want to keep them on life support.
They should move on to a better future.
I wouldn''t expect you to pay inflated prices for my product that you don''t want while simultaneously demanding that you also pay for my co-workers continued support just because they were my co-workers.
Your survival instincts are sharp. You have honor sir.
So do others.
But if you believe that only furloughed airline employees are special and deserving of extra benefits then I must strongly disagree with you.
Your loyalties are clear and unchallenged -- first your family and then your professional brethren and you should be free to support both however you choose.
I choose not to support an outdated business model along with the current and former employees who will insist on forcing me to pay for them to cling to the notion that they "will prevail" and brand me as anti-employee just because I don''t want to keep them on life support.
They should move on to a better future.
I wouldn''t expect you to pay inflated prices for my product that you don''t want while simultaneously demanding that you also pay for my co-workers continued support just because they were my co-workers.
Your survival instincts are sharp. You have honor sir.
So do others.
Three days after Sept. 11th occured the airlines were given $5 Billion of your TAX DOLLARS SCOTT FREE and laid off over 100,000 employees. They also recieved $10 Billion in loan gaurantees and are getting ready to get another $3.5 billion of our tax dollars.
That is where your anger should be, help out the well over 100,000 laid of employees and not give corporate welfare to companies!
That is where your anger should be, help out the well over 100,000 laid of employees and not give corporate welfare to companies!
airlineorphan
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----------------
On 4/11/2003 10:58:59 PM LavMan wrote:
Three days after Sept. 11th occured the airlines were given $5 Billion of your TAX DOLLARS SCOTT FREE and laid off over 100,000 employees. They also recieved $10 Billion in loan gaurantees and are getting ready to get another $3.5 billion of our tax dollars.
That is where your anger should be, help out the well over 100,000 laid of employees and not give corporate welfare to companies!
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On 4/11/2003 10:58:59 PM LavMan wrote:
Three days after Sept. 11th occured the airlines were given $5 Billion of your TAX DOLLARS SCOTT FREE and laid off over 100,000 employees. They also recieved $10 Billion in loan gaurantees and are getting ready to get another $3.5 billion of our tax dollars.
That is where your anger should be, help out the well over 100,000 laid of employees and not give corporate welfare to companies!
----------------
You said it LavMan!
One more thing. Airline lobbyists were in DC with their hands out within 12 hours of the first plane hitting the tower. Congress members (who had received $12 million in contributions from 1998-2002) acted fast and passed the massive bailout.
It took Congress another SIX MONTHS to get around to a paltry 13 week extension of unemployment benefits (with huge restrictions on who qualified). The bill extending unemployment benefits had a rider tacked on that gave $8 in corporate tax breaks for EVERY $1 allotted for unemployment benefits.
The initial bailout was widely criticized for having nothing in it about airline workers. At US Airways we found out this wasn''t actually true. The bailout said plenty about airline workers. Just nothing good. The loan guarantee program required airline management to beat up on employees in order to get approval from the ATSB. Not that management needed any prodding, but it sure has been a useful figleaf.
Well over 2 million people lost their jobs in the last 18 months. All kinds of employers got in the blame-it-on-9/11 act. Even Martha Stewart Living laid people off citing the terrorist attacks. Gimme a break!
Corporate America has been taking advantage of our tragedies to restructure and grab whatever they can. That, indeed, is where our anger should be directed.
Exagony''s response is upside down and inside out when he or she lashes out. Airline workers have certainly been hit hard by the recession (none dare call it depression), but so have workers in other sectors. Unemployment needs to be extended for everyone. Not just airline workers.
And CEO''s who have taken advantage of 9/11 and wartime, lining their pockets while kicking the crap out of employees, waltzing off with giant lumpsum pensions while terminating the pensions (deferred wages) of the people who do the work.... Those CEO''s should be in jail. Throw away the key.
-Airlineorphan
You said it LavMan!
One more thing. Airline lobbyists were in DC with their hands out within 12 hours of the first plane hitting the tower. Congress members (who had received $12 million in contributions from 1998-2002) acted fast and passed the massive bailout.
1. At the front of that lobbyist line was Linda Daschle, wife of Tom Daschle who is a Dem and supposedly "labor''s friend".
It took Congress another SIX MONTHS to get around to a paltry 13 week extension of unemployment benefits (with huge restrictions on who qualified).
2. 13 weeks is better than 0 weeks. Be glad you got an extension in the first place. Many would argue that there shouldn''t be any extensions inb benefits.
The bill extending unemployment benefits had a rider tacked on that gave $8 in corporate tax breaks for EVERY $1 allotted for unemployment benefits.
3. So what? Tax breaks go to the ORGANIZATION not to an individual. Without tax breaks many companies would need to lay-off even more employees.
The initial bailout was widely criticized for having nothing in it about airline workers. At US Airways we found out this wasn''t actually true. The bailout said plenty about airline workers. Just nothing good. The loan guarantee program required airline management to beat up on employees in order to get approval from the ATSB. Not that management needed any prodding, but it sure has been a useful figleaf.
3. Is this the line that Terry McAullife faxed you this morning from the DNC headquaters?
Well over 2 million people lost their jobs in the last 18 months. All kinds of employers got in the blame-it-on-9/11 act. Even Martha Stewart Living laid people off citing the terrorist attacks. Gimme a break!
4. So over 2 million lost their jobs, I would argue a higher # than that, of that 200,000 or so were in the airlines. Yet airline employees keep crying that they DESERVE another extension. What about the other 180,000? Are we suppoosed to just say "screw you" to them because they don''t work in the airlines?
Corporate America has been taking advantage of our tragedies to restructure and grab whatever they can. That, indeed, is where our anger should be directed.
5. Is this another DNC talking point that good old Terry faxed you?
Exagony''s response is upside down and inside out when he or she lashes out. Airline workers have certainly been hit hard by the recession (none dare call it depression), but so have workers in other sectors. Unemployment needs to be extended for everyone. Not just airline workers.
6. The so called recession the US was in only lasted a few months. I think its time to stop listening to the DNC and Peter Jennings and do some research on your own about the economy. The economy has been growin at a rate of between 1-3%, although not a astagering rate, it is not a recession when the economy grows even at an anemic rate. I would agree that if one group, ie the airline employees, get a benefit extension than ALL unemployed people should get the same.
And CEO''s who have taken advantage of 9/11 and wartime, lining their pockets while kicking the crap out of employees, waltzing off with giant lumpsum pensions while terminating the pensions (deferred wages) of the people who do the work.... Those CEO''s should be in jail. Throw away the key.
6. While I agre with you for the most part, pensions ARE a benefit, not a right. You are correct to say that some CEO''s are dispicable with their actions dealing with the pensions.
-Airlineorphan
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One more thing. Airline lobbyists were in DC with their hands out within 12 hours of the first plane hitting the tower. Congress members (who had received $12 million in contributions from 1998-2002) acted fast and passed the massive bailout.
1. At the front of that lobbyist line was Linda Daschle, wife of Tom Daschle who is a Dem and supposedly "labor''s friend".
It took Congress another SIX MONTHS to get around to a paltry 13 week extension of unemployment benefits (with huge restrictions on who qualified).
2. 13 weeks is better than 0 weeks. Be glad you got an extension in the first place. Many would argue that there shouldn''t be any extensions inb benefits.
The bill extending unemployment benefits had a rider tacked on that gave $8 in corporate tax breaks for EVERY $1 allotted for unemployment benefits.
3. So what? Tax breaks go to the ORGANIZATION not to an individual. Without tax breaks many companies would need to lay-off even more employees.
The initial bailout was widely criticized for having nothing in it about airline workers. At US Airways we found out this wasn''t actually true. The bailout said plenty about airline workers. Just nothing good. The loan guarantee program required airline management to beat up on employees in order to get approval from the ATSB. Not that management needed any prodding, but it sure has been a useful figleaf.
3. Is this the line that Terry McAullife faxed you this morning from the DNC headquaters?
Well over 2 million people lost their jobs in the last 18 months. All kinds of employers got in the blame-it-on-9/11 act. Even Martha Stewart Living laid people off citing the terrorist attacks. Gimme a break!
4. So over 2 million lost their jobs, I would argue a higher # than that, of that 200,000 or so were in the airlines. Yet airline employees keep crying that they DESERVE another extension. What about the other 180,000? Are we suppoosed to just say "screw you" to them because they don''t work in the airlines?
Corporate America has been taking advantage of our tragedies to restructure and grab whatever they can. That, indeed, is where our anger should be directed.
5. Is this another DNC talking point that good old Terry faxed you?
Exagony''s response is upside down and inside out when he or she lashes out. Airline workers have certainly been hit hard by the recession (none dare call it depression), but so have workers in other sectors. Unemployment needs to be extended for everyone. Not just airline workers.
6. The so called recession the US was in only lasted a few months. I think its time to stop listening to the DNC and Peter Jennings and do some research on your own about the economy. The economy has been growin at a rate of between 1-3%, although not a astagering rate, it is not a recession when the economy grows even at an anemic rate. I would agree that if one group, ie the airline employees, get a benefit extension than ALL unemployed people should get the same.
And CEO''s who have taken advantage of 9/11 and wartime, lining their pockets while kicking the crap out of employees, waltzing off with giant lumpsum pensions while terminating the pensions (deferred wages) of the people who do the work.... Those CEO''s should be in jail. Throw away the key.
6. While I agre with you for the most part, pensions ARE a benefit, not a right. You are correct to say that some CEO''s are dispicable with their actions dealing with the pensions.
-Airlineorphan
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airlineorphan
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On 4/13/2003 7:33:02 AM exagony wrote:
1. At the front of that lobbyist line was Linda Daschle, wife of Tom Daschle who is a Dem and supposedly "labor''s friend".
3. Is this the line that Terry McAullife faxed you this morning from the DNC headquaters?
4. So over 2 million lost their jobs, I would argue a higher # than that, of that 200,000 or so were in the airlines. Yet airline employees keep crying that they DESERVE another extension. What about the other 180,000? Are we suppoosed to just say "screw you" to them because they don''t work in the airlines?
5. Is this another DNC talking point that good old Terry faxed you?
6. The so called recession the US was in only lasted a few months. I think its time to stop listening to the DNC and Peter Jennings and do some research on your own about the economy. The economy has been growin at a rate of between 1-3%, although not a astagering rate, it is not a recession when the economy grows even at an anemic rate. I would agree that if one group, ie the airline employees, get a benefit extension than ALL unemployed people should get the same.
6. While I agre with you for the most part, pensions ARE a benefit, not a right. You are correct to say that some CEO''s are dispicable with their actions dealing with the pensions.
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Exagony,On 4/13/2003 7:33:02 AM exagony wrote:
1. At the front of that lobbyist line was Linda Daschle, wife of Tom Daschle who is a Dem and supposedly "labor''s friend".
3. Is this the line that Terry McAullife faxed you this morning from the DNC headquaters?
4. So over 2 million lost their jobs, I would argue a higher # than that, of that 200,000 or so were in the airlines. Yet airline employees keep crying that they DESERVE another extension. What about the other 180,000? Are we suppoosed to just say "screw you" to them because they don''t work in the airlines?
5. Is this another DNC talking point that good old Terry faxed you?
6. The so called recession the US was in only lasted a few months. I think its time to stop listening to the DNC and Peter Jennings and do some research on your own about the economy. The economy has been growin at a rate of between 1-3%, although not a astagering rate, it is not a recession when the economy grows even at an anemic rate. I would agree that if one group, ie the airline employees, get a benefit extension than ALL unemployed people should get the same.
6. While I agre with you for the most part, pensions ARE a benefit, not a right. You are correct to say that some CEO''s are dispicable with their actions dealing with the pensions.
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As for your points 1, 3, 5 and your first point 6... Ever since I voted for Nader in 1996 and 2000, Terry and Tom stopped sending me any faxes with marching orders. Sniff, they don''t love me any more..... Well that''s okay, cuz I don''t love''em either.
Exagony, you''ve jumped to quite a few conclusions here. I consider the Democrats and the Republicans, on the balance, to represent corporate interests and not much else. They disagree on some things because corporations disagree on some things. Someday, the charade will end and we''ll just vote between the candidate from ExxonMobil and the candidate from Nike. Or we''ll get our lazy butts organized and hold some people accountable.
You''re right to mention Linda Daschle, because the congressional/corporate assault on working people has certainly been a bipartisan affair. For those of you who don''t know, Linda Hall-Daschle is one of the chief lobbyists for the airline industry. She led the charge when the airlines got the first big bailout with nothing in it to protect airline workers. Yep, if you''re a worker, you''ve got enemies on both sides of the aisle in Congress.
(check out these links for interesting info on Linda Daschle and the 2001 airline bailout: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12217 and http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID...1754)
As for point 4, you might want to go back and read what I''ve already said on the subject. I called my representative and told him unemployment should be extended for ALL UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE, not just laid off airline workers. And that is what I''ve consistently said all along when I''ve commented here.
On your first point 6, see what I already said about the Democratic Party. I could make some snide comment about you listening to Rush too much, but I won''t make such assumptions because, hey, I don''t know where you get your information. I certainly don''t rely upon the corporate media, which is only as liberal as the multinational corporations which own it.
As for whether it is a recession, maybe it is, maybe it ain''t. The economists won''t declare a recession until it is over. Whether the economy is growing or not, the people doing the work in it (airline or otherwise) are getting their asses handed to them. Unemployment, as you already point out, is growing, and official figures structurally underestimate real unemployment because you are considered unemployed anymore if you are still looking for work after your benefits run out.
Anyway, yes, I''ll say it again, unemployment benefits should be extended for all unemployed people, not just laid off airline workers.
On your last point, I would add that pensions are something that people fought for. Whether you regard them as a right or a privilege (and I regard retirement benefits as a right) those benefits were earned. They were deferred wages and they were stolen. If I steal, I can go to jail. How about the Labor Relations department?
Don''t whine, organize.
-Airlineorphan
