Us Airways Pilots Put Final Nail In The Coffin!

[700UW]

Go see your eye doctor then!

 

[funguy2]

WN flies no RJs, highest compensated employees in the industry and highly profitable, B6 has no RJs highly profitable.

Hmm, guess your facts don't really stand up!

This viewpoint seem fairly skewed... particularly in terms of JetBlue. If all US Airways did was fly from the largest NE metro's to the west coast and Florida, then you would have a vaild point. However, US Airways system includes Binghamton, Asheville, Grand Rapids, Huntsville, etc. In order to fly profitably to the smaller markets, US Airways needs the right planes.

Now, I by no means believe that the RJs are US Airways savior, but the are required to remain competitive in smaller markets.

 

[funguy2]

Nice, simple, comprehensive plan...

Now, if you only had a plan for the fleet, route structure/schedule, pricing, and marketing, etc, you could be earning $600K to $11mil!

This is exactly the kind of thing Seigel needs to come out and tell the troops... This is the plan... This is where we want to be... Everything we do will accomplish something on this list.

 

[funguy2]

That being said, the USAirways pilots are NOT willing to go the way you suggest at the behest of present management. Management has made no progress at all with the incredible resources we (all labor groups included) have given them. They still won't make any meaningful changes without our signing over blank check contracts and letters of agreement. THAT will not happen this time around.

nycbusdriver:

You have made the point about this thread which I keep thinking... In fact, I will take it a step further.

I keep saying that Doc Bronner will not invest more cash in US Airways... It would be "throwing good money after bad". Well, I think the same can be said of the pilots and all labor groups.

Through two rounds of concessions, Labor at US Airways has made an investment. They have invested "their" dollars of future income in US Airways. The expected "return" on this "investment" was supposed to be healthier US Airways financials, and resulting in increased job security. However, thus far, Labor's "investment" has tanked. Very little gains in job security have been made. Now, the company is asking Labor to "invest" more in US Airways, yet their past performance indicates this is will be a bad investment, since they didn't deliver the return promised in the last two rounds of "investing".

Why should Labor "invest" more in this company, when it has not fulfilled its part of the last "investment"? The only reason is because there is no other option to keep the company afloat. But in order to convince Labor to "invest" again, they will required to "return" the previously promised job security and more. But what more can US Airways offer Labor for this "investment"? Another promise of job security? Its really a tough call for Labor to make. Labor should not have to tell management how to manage (i.e. show us the plan and we'll "invest"). Management should have the plan together and should be trying to sell it to Labor, not make them beg for it (and still produce nothing).

 

[oldiebutgoody]

... I work and sacrafice alot to do my job and do it as best I can and I am one of the lowest paid employees that U has. I guess I should quit right now before I go off again.

Sounds like you're bitter because you chose the wrong line of work. It's not the mainline pilot's fault that THEIR jobs are being given to the commuter companies at an alarming rate. You should be putting the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of management! :blink:

 

[funguy2]

700 what about this picture do you not yet get?The reason benefits and wages are higher is because the rest of the contract compared to ours is breath taking. First and formost, they arent paying out the yang for cleaners to clean the aircrat , and their contracts are more productivity enhanced. Im sure in the end we will know all about sw productibvity enhancements cuz we will be doing the same.. I ll have to say i have never seen a worse case of denial than with about 10 people on here. You will notice out of the thousands of employees we have, they have better things to do rather than constantly be negative and shout we all ready gave Dave.... In the end, these are the core of employees who want this airline to survive and feel their alternatives are small. If they were so great our turnover rate at this point would be huge. The FACTS are, theres very few options here. But once again reality is hard to grasp for some.

usfliboi: you make a good point. I remember reading somewhere that LUV's FA's do all the aircraft cleaning by being in the aft of the aircraft on arrival, and cleaning back to front as the passengers unload through the front door. This makes the turn quick and eliminates a whole category of worker (i.e. aircraft cleaners) which some folks on this thread say cost $60K each (not sure if I believe that).

So do the LUV FA's do more work? Yes. Are they rewarded for it in terms of higher complete compensation (including job security)? Yes. Does LUV benefit from not having aircraft cleaners, even if the can be hired at $7-$10/hr? Yes.

Its very rare that you can see an example of efficiency such as this eliminate a whole category of worker, in this case aircraft cleaners. I wonder how many other things LUV's efficiencies simply eliminate the need for? You would have to think their push to internet ticketing and the closing of 3 of 9 res centers has to be related.

 

[Kev3188]

One real easy way to expedite cleaning of a turn flight is to not have it get very dirty in the first place. Not sure how the F/A's at U are, but on AS they come through quite often (4x on a flight from PDX-LAS for example) picking up trash, newspapers, etc. It's also possible for utility, or anyone else to clean from aft to front; just have a set of airstairs or a truck (for a widebody) back there ready to go.

P.S. Funguy2-- Southwest does have A/C cleaners, just in fewer stations.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

LUV's airplanes are pretty dirty, at least the ones that I've been on. They WILL NOT slow down the deplaning/emplaning process in order to clean them. Instead, the F/As clean what they can, then take off the gloves and board ASAP. Makes for a fairly disgusting plane by the end of the day, but I guess it's what american consumers want!

 

[700UW]

usfliboi: you make a good point. I remember reading somewhere that LUV's FA's do all the aircraft cleaning by being in the aft of the aircraft on arrival, and cleaning back to front as the passengers unload through the front door. This makes the turn quick and eliminates a whole category of worker (i.e. aircraft cleaners) which some folks on this thread say cost $60K each (not sure if I believe that).

So do the LUV FA's do more work? Yes. Are they rewarded for it in terms of higher complete compensation (including job security)? Yes. Does LUV benefit from not having aircraft cleaners, even if the can be hired at $7-$10/hr? Yes.

Its very rare that you can see an example of efficiency such as this eliminate a whole category of worker, in this case aircraft cleaners. I wonder how many other things LUV's efficiencies simply eliminate the need for? You would have to think their push to internet ticketing and the closing of 3 of 9 res centers has to be related.

Funguy, WN's F/A's are not compensated for cleaning planes and they are willing to strike over it, and WN does have cleaners, go read the previous post where I showed usfliboi

http://local556.twuatd.org/

2520 West Mockingbird Lane Dallas, TX 75235 (214) 352-9110 (800) 969-7932 Fax (214) 357-9870
April 13, 2004
Mr. James Parker
Vice Chairman and CEO
Southwest Airlines
P.O. Box 36611
Dallas, TX 75235-1611
Dear Mr. Parker:
We are aware of the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, and we are aware that neither the Union nor Management has the legal power to “declare an impasseâ€. Your public position, however, has indicated that you have made your “best†offer and are only willing to meet with the Union to discuss presenting your “best†offer for a vote of our Membership. Your unwillingness to continue serious Negotiations leads us to believe that you should request release from the National Mediation Board so that we may continue to progress through the dispute resolution mechanisms offered by the Railway Labor Act.

We are deeply disturbed by your statement that your “best offer†is not your “best and final offer†especially when you have attempted to pressure our Union and our Members to put your offer to a vote. Our Flight Attendants give their “best†to our Customers every day. There can be no distinction between “best†and “best and final†because for our Flight Attendants to not give our “best†to our Customers every day could mean that they might not come back. In spite of our daily
contribution to the success of Southwest Airlines, you have allowed Negotiations with the “Best Flight Attendants in the Industry†to drag on for almost two years. Every day you allow this struggle to continue, morale declines and our Culture suffers. We hope that you are not risking our futures over semantics.

Since these Negotiations began, the Union Negotiating Team has made mature decisions and negotiated seriously for our Members. The future of our Company and our Culture depends on it.

We have offered numerous times in written and verbal communication to meet with you, a subcommittee, or your entire Negotiating Team on a formal or informal basis, with or without a mediator, and you have not responded to our offers; therefore, we will, once again, contact you to schedule a meeting.
Sincerely,
Thom McDaniel
TWU Local 556 President
CC: Les Parmelee, Senior Mediator, National Mediation Board
TWU Local 556 Members
TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION
OF AMERICA, AFL-CIO
AIR TRANSPORT LOCAL 556

 

[funguy2]

WOJetDreamer says... "BY THE END OF THE SUMMER US AIRWAYS WILL HAVE ITS DOORS SHUT THANKS TO THE UNIONS!!! "


I say... Gross mismanagement by overpaid CEO's and their cronies from the Crystal Palace doomed this airline long ago. It was not and is not the UNIONS. The list of failures astounds me. From "Mirror Image", to wiping off the smiles on the PSA birds, from "Business Select" to self-directed teams, from selling "Airmotive" to the merging attempt with "UAL", from exorbitant golden parachutes to 35 million dollar "payoffs" are only some of the colossal boners this company has pulled. If this company ever pulls through it will be because of the skill and dedication of the UNION PEOPLE despite the "designed to fail" mentality in which the company has been operated.

You have a point.

However, if the Pilots (or Labor overall) do not give concessions, and that forces the company to fail, many will blame the unions because they did not help. While the reality is that the whole situation is not entirely their fault* often it is the final straw that gets the blame, often undeserved. If Labor's lack of concessions causes this company to fail, then management can say, "If only ALPA (or whichever union) would have agreed to concessions, we could have lived to fight another mis-managed day." In fact, I think part of what is going on is a blatent attempt to set up the unions for the blame... To do exactly as I have described above. I come to this conclusion based on the myriad of things US Airways management can (or could have) done to lower costs or increase revenue (i.e. rolling hubs, fleet simplification, fare simplification, etc, etc).

* Note: I would say blame for wages generally belongs at about 75% management and 25% labor, since labor should bear some responsibility for their wages, since they have the ability to threaten (and accomplish) a strike in order to acheive higher wages.

 

[funguy2]

Is this posting for aircraft appearance folks to clean during the turns or overnight? I can't imagine that LUV has time to get all the people off the plane... Cleaners on to clean, then off, then load up, all in 25-30 minutes. I can understand that the FA's clean during the aircraft turn. I am sure FAs do not do "heavy duty" overnight cleaning.

 

[700UW]

Labor has stepped up to a tune over over $1.2 Billion a year for almost two years, 20,000 less jobs and the termination of the pilot's pension.

Sorry it is time for dave to leave and get someone who knows how to run an airline instead of raping the employees.

 

[funguy2]

700 could you please type a little slower please i still dont see any facts here. Whats us cleaners avg salary today? This isnt all about cleaners.... Across the board their contracts are more flex and breed productivity like no other. Your gonna have a hard time looking at south west jet blue or airtran, and comparing the whole picture ! Doesnt work dude. The end result is their contracts are designed to make money for their respective companies, ours are not.... Plain and simple. Why cant you see that through your "facts" you quote.?

700: I think usfliboi has a valid point. And I normally do not agree with usfliboi at all.

 

[funguy2]

One real easy way to expedite cleaning of a turn flight is to not have it get very dirty in the first place. Not sure how the F/A's at U are, but on AS they come through quite often (4x on a flight from PDX-LAS for example) picking up trash, newspapers, etc. It's also possible for utility, or anyone else to clean from aft to front; just have a set of airstairs or a truck (for a widebody) back there ready to go.

P.S. Funguy2-- Southwest does have A/C cleaners, just in fewer stations.

Admittedly, what I read about this topic was years ago...

Are these aircraft cleaners working turns? or overnights?

 

[Phantom Fixer]

Why should Labor "invest" more in this company, when it has not fulfilled its part of the last "investment"? The only reason is because there is no other option to keep the company afloat. But in order to convince Labor to "invest" again, they will required to "return" the previously promised job security and more. But what more can US Airways offer Labor for this "investment"? Another promise of job security? Its really a tough call for Labor to make. Labor should not have to tell management how to manage (i.e. show us the plan and we'll "invest"). Management should have the plan together and should be trying to sell it to Labor, not make them beg for it (and still produce nothing).

You are mst correct in your observations.

U's Employee investements have not netted the company a profit.

U's Employee investements have not netted in so-called security either. The laboring ranks continue to dwindle thru abolisments , retirements , deaths and of course natural attrition , yet the only jobs being filled or created are more middle and upper management positions.

U's Maintenance ranks are at an all time low...yet more foreman (production supervisors) are being hired at a near endless clip. Why does a reduced labor force that is senior beyond belief need more and more middle management?

Job Security should be the issue...and security is linked to profits. Labor provides a service and nothing more....it's up to the upper eschelon to be looking at growth via market expanse and selling the customer a superior product that people will clammer too.

Here at U...Labor is not only the instrument of turning out a safe and reliable product....we are also supposed to finance the product as well. How screwed up has this picture become?

FYI.....Acft Cleaners do not make 60K a year at U regardless of their senority. 35K is about maxed out under the current contract.

When you hear or see a person claiming to be making 60K plus....rest assured that this person or persons is working overtime out the wahzoo to cover all the un-filled slots that have fallen victim to our managements whims.