Us Airways Pilots Put Final Nail In The Coffin!

[700UW]

Let me explain it one more time:

US Airways flies into 89 mainline stations, there are only Utility at eight stations on three shifts, where is use to be 33, then 28, and all 33 stations had third shift.

Now thre are only eight stations that have three shift coverage and the remaining 10 have third shift only.

In round two of concessions Utility was cut 50% in this company at line stations. There are less then 1,000 left in the system and that includes heavy maintenance and the shops.

The company brought back rampers who make over $2 an hour more to clean planes, yep real efficient.

Explain to me how getting rid of the last of line utility who are the LOWEST paid organized group of employees going to be efficent?

The company got what they wanted twice, no more left to give.

 

[funguy2]

Labor has stepped up to a tune over over $1.2 Billion a year for almost two years, 20,000 less jobs and the termination of the pilot's pension.

Sorry it is time for dave to leave and get someone who knows how to run an airline instead of raping the employees.

I agree... Labor has made their "investment". Its time for management to make good on the "investment" they asked labor to make. The problem is, US Airways may cease to exist before it can make good on that investment if Labor is unwilling to sacrifice again.

If I worked at US Airways, I probably would not be willing to make any more concessions either. Not until management makes significant cost-cutting moves (and revenue enhancing moves) in non-labor areas. However, I also see how this position could turn around and bite you in the butt, too. It's a tough call to make.

 

[Kev3188]

Admittedly, what I read about this topic was years ago...

Are these aircraft cleaners working turns? or overnights?

Not sure, but I would guess both. At my station (PDX), overnight cleaning is contracted out. Let's just say you definitely get what you pay for. I wonder why their ramp doesn't do it in the stations without cleaners? That would seem to be the most efficient to me (I mean, they're already on the clock and all).

 

[funguy2]

Let me explain it one more time:

US Airways flies into 89 mainline stations, there are only Utility at eight stations on three shifts, where is use to be 33, then 28, and all 33 stations had third shift.

Now thre are only eight stations that have three shift coverage and the remaining 10 have third shift only.

In round two of concessions Utility was cut 50% in this company at line stations. There are less then 1,000 left in the system and that includes heavy maintenance and the shops.

The company brought back rampers who make over $2 an hour more to clean planes, yep real efficient.

Explain to me how getting rid of the last of line utility who are the LOWEST paid organized group of employees going to be efficent?

The company got what they wanted twice, no more left to give.

700: I understand your point... Now here is mine:

If US Airways wants Southwest style labor efficiency... They had better not simply reduce the head-count. They need to look at exactly what Southwest's people do that creates the efficiency.

The FA cleaning the plane is just one example where LUV has saved money in the past. I am not talking about cutting utility workers and adding back more expensive rampers. I am talking about giving the FA's a raise and a new job responsibility (cleaning) in order to reduce or eliminate the workers who only clean aircraft during a turn (whether rampers or utility or monkey-boys, what you call them makes no difference).

Next, since you put the FA's in the back of the aircraft, they work forward as passengers deplane, turn times can be decreased. Now, not only do you get the benefit of needing one less type of worker, you also get quicker turns... One action, giving FA's cleaning responsibility, creates two types of efficiency. Shorter turns = ability to fly more flights... more flights = more revenue and more FA, pilot, ramp, gate jobs.

Does it make sense to still have overnight cleaners at major stations where there are multple aircraft to clean, and the ability to change out seat covers, clean lavs real good, etc, etc? Yes, it probably does. Does it make sense to have separate aircraft cleaners during turns all day long, only cleaning up left-over newspapers, seat pockets, etc? No, have the FA's clean the airplane during turns.

 

[700UW]

Do you not understand that WN's F/As are not getting paid to clean planes, as niether do ours, WN's F/As are willing to strike over it.

And lets go to a sanitary aspect, one the company has F/As clean at 25 stations for no pay, they are not given gloves, nor are they trained on biohazards and needle sticking prevention and their is not anti-bacterial soap on-board or cleansers.

The F/As only pick up the big items in the cabin, they do not clean bathrooms, or dump the trash, or go down below and clean up dog feces or urine, fish juice that spills in the cargo bin, nor get in a lav truck or water truck and service the planes.

Do you want a F/A who just picked up someone's used kleenex without gloves and unable to wash their hands with anti-bacterial soap, serving you your drink?

Think about that next time you fly.

And the utility group was hit hardest in concessions and lost the most jobs %wise and they gave the company what they asked for, I am sorry but I am not gonna throw my coworker under the bus to save my hyde, that is not what unions and labor is all about.

dave was given the tools to run and save this airline, he has failed and failed misrably, he violates contracts at his beckon will, so why would you negotiate with someone who has blown almost $4 billion in concessions from employees and vendors and he can't even honor the contracts he agreed to all ready.

He has no vision, no leadership skills and must go!

 

[funguy2]

LUV's airplanes are pretty dirty, at least the ones that I've been on. They WILL NOT slow down the deplaning/emplaning process in order to clean them. Instead, the F/As clean what they can, then take off the gloves and board ASAP. Makes for a fairly disgusting plane by the end of the day, but I guess it's what american consumers want!

oldie:

Have you been to Wal-Mart lately? Its the same thing... The store gets dirty, but they won't close down one register to clean. And they are the retailing king. You do get what you pay for.

 

[funguy2]

700:

Do you not understand that WN's F/As are not getting paid to clean planes, as niether do ours, WN's F/As are willing to strike over it.

Fine. I have read you saying this over and over. Do you not understand that this will be a major sticking point for management, because management is not just going to give up the efficiencies which have driven their success, and that they have put in place over the last 30 years? Perhaps this is one of the reasons why their FA negotiations seem to be going so slowly? I don't know.

And lets go to a sanitary aspect, one the company has F/As clean at 25 stations for no pay, they are not given gloves, nor are they trained on biohazards and needle sticking prevention and their is not anti-bacterial soap on-board or cleansers.

Well, oldiebutgoodie seems to contradict your statement:

Instead, the F/As clean what they can, then take off the gloves and board ASAP.

I have no idea whether a cleaner supplies and gloves are on board or what the training is. Those seem like minor non-issues which are easily solved, unless anti-bacterial soap is haz-mat.

The F/As only pick up the big items in the cabin, they do not clean bathrooms, or dump the trash, or go down below and clean up dog feces or urine, fish juice that spills in the cargo bin, nor get in a lav truck or water truck and service the planes.

Fine. These are not responsibilites that, on the occasions when the arise, cannot be the responsibility of somebody other than a designated "utility" worker? A ramper cannot clean up the occasional cargo hold spill (non-haz-mat)? F/A's and gate agents can't clean up after the occasional doggie-error? Nobody is suggesting that FA's dump lavs... Do you think LUV's FA's dump lavs during those 25 minute turns?

Does Wal-Mart have a dedicated clean-up staff at each store all day long? Or do they expect a stock clerk or cashier to help clean up the occasional non-haz-mat spill?

Do you want a F/A who just picked up someone's used kleenex without gloves and unable to wash their hands with anti-bacterial soap, serving you your drink?

So maybe USAirways should open the purse strings and buy some anti-baterial soap. I have noticed that in airplanes I have flown on, the soap in the lav says "anti-bacterial" on it. Maybe we should hang placards that say, "Employees must wash hands before returning to work" in the airplane lavs. And God forbid they should have to use the restroom during their shift, or collect vomit bags during a flight. I expect that the FA's will use common sence when it comes to hygene. If that cannot be attained, then it should be included in the training and job requirements.

And the utility group was hit hardest in concessions and lost the most jobs %wise and they gave the company what they asked for, I am sorry but I am not gonna throw my coworker under the bus to save my hyde, that is not what unions and labor is all about.

Well, your loyalty is to be commended. But times change. If Maytag had unions like this, the US would be littered with Maytag repairmen who have nothing to do (or Maytag would be out of business). The idea is that these folks can presumably do something more productive or aren't needed. Its unfortunate, I agree.

SIZE=1]dave[/SIZE] was given the tools to run and save this airline, he has failed and failed misrably, he violates contracts at his beckon will, so why would you negotiate with someone who has blown almost $4 billion in concessions from employees and vendors and he can't even honor the contracts he agreed to all ready.

I think I have generally agreed with you that US Airways management has failed to deliver on the promises it made to Labor. If I worked there, I would personally vote against further concessions (at least until management makes structural, non-labor changes). However, I would not turn a blind eye to how that vote could come back to haunt me if US Airways goes out of business.

 

[funguy2]

You know 700, the more I think about our debate, the angier I get. I am getting angry because it is exactly this mentality that has US Airways in trouble in the first place. The mentality is: "We've always had utility workers to clean airplanes, and we need clean airplanes, therefore, we need utility workers."

If US Airways cannot even think outside the box in regards to how to clean airplanes most efficiently, how is anyone supposed to believe that US Airways can think outside the box to solve much more complicated issues like rolling hubs, revenue maximization, employee morale?

This is why I believe US Airways is in trouble. Nobody seems to believe they are in a box which need to be looked outside of.

 

[700UW]

Why don't you tell dave to think out of the box and try to run an airline instead of bleeding the employees to a slow death.

Or if you want to lay off the less then 1,000 left, why don't you personally go to their houses and tell them, and then tell the F/As, you are gonna clean planes and not get paid.

And this company does nothing efficient, they spend a million to save a penny, the IAM has come to them with $80-$100 million in cost savings and the company has not acted upon it.

The fine technicians in the CLT Avionics shop has shown this company they can fix numerous parts in-house, cheaper, better and faster and this company still vendors out the parts. The workers in that shop have drawn up business plan after business plan and proven their case and it goes on deaf ears.

So I take it you are an outsider who thinks they can solve all the problems at US by throwing the workers under the bus who have all ready made tremendous sacrifices just to see dave piss it away.

 

[RedOne]

At my station (PDX), overnight cleaning is contracted out. Let's just say you definitely get what you pay for. I wonder why their ramp doesn't do it in the stations without cleaners? That would seem to be the most efficient to me (I mean, they're already on the clock and all).

Here is another example of inconsistancy. In the small station I work in, the overnight clearing (?) is done by F/S agents (not contracted out). Normally 3 agents have about 45 minutes to clean (?) aircraft....do security (can't go into explaing that duty). If I read the F/S contract correctly, IF a station does not have utility workers at the station (maint.)...the work can be done by agents. Here again, I feel sure the company has evaluated the sta. and determined they could contract it out cheaper than our F/S agents could do it.
Let's be real. The aircraft don't get cleaned. The trash is gotten off the floor, seat pockets are arranged in the way required so the FAA doesn't fine us and blue rooms hopefully restocked. With this done....the aircraft is CLEAN!
Do we need real cleaners somewhere on the system? We better hope we have some, somewhere. Otherwise, the inside of the airplanes are going to start looking like the outside of the planes do.
..................................
It is up to management to present "a plan" showing how they hope to better utilize the employees. The employees can then do one of two things.....agree to the changes....or tell the company no thanks for now, but you can bring it up again (if you choose to) when we go to negotiate our next contract several years down the road (assuming we still exist then).

 

[700UW]

Good post Red One

 

[etops1]

its funny when we fly into the carribean you see cleaners come on the airplane and they do an awesome job. any where we fly that usairways has contracted cleaners. the cleaners do a magnificent job. its sad i can't say the same about our own cleaners. sorry guys don't mean to put you down but its the truth. i have friend who is utility in phl and he even agrees with me. he also agrees that he thinks "it's rediculous the money he makes just to clean an aircraft." those were his exact words.

 

[700UW]

Yep, just don't worry about the supplies they steal in the carribean, and the lavs that don't get serviced properly, SXM is the worst, they put pure water in the lavs instead of blue.

And there are problems in the US system due to lack of staffing, for example, in CLT on C-con you have 12 utility to work 17 gates, explain to me how 12 people are suppose to be in 17 places at the same time and do a good job?

Yep he is overpaid to clean up puke, feces, urine, worry about getting stuck with a needle while cleaning out a seat pocket, cleaning fish juice or whatever else spills in a cargo bin, working the lav truck, lifting 200lbs of trashbags of of the European flights, and I won't even go into what a utility, yes utility, the are not called cleaners do in heavy maintenance. Oh, and I forget the FAA mandated security checks that you can get fined for if done improperly.


Artilce 4 paragraph J of the IAM mechanic and related contract it is UTILTY, not cleaners, get it right, lol!

 

[PITbull]

etops,

Tell your PHL pal he needs to start earning some of that money. If he feels he's overpaid...he's not thoroughly doing his job.

 

[RedOne]

There is one thing that crew members need to be reminded of occasionally. Ground personel (F/S agents, C/S agents, and I assume Maint and utility) often experience something crew members never experience. We work short of help. If you guys in the cockpit dont have a capt or a f/o...the airplane doesn't go anywhere. It is the same for f/a. Not so for ground personel. We do the best job that we can with the help that we have.
...Some jobs are under the protection of FAA requirements (how many must be in the cockpit and cabin). Other jobs are not. These are the jobs that management can step on...and they do. All things ain't equal.