Where Was Us Airways' Media People?

[biztraveller29]

Sorry, but you guys are completely missing the point. Fact: US Airways' fare structure is too complicated and makes U overly reliant on last minute $1,000 flyers, which is a rapidly disappearing customer group.

Was the reporting over-simplified? Yes. Is the point still the same? Yes.

Talking about the price of driving vs. flying, or what will happen if U goes out of business is pretty much unrelated to the topic of U's flawed fare structure.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Like I said in an earlier post, nobody is paying the "Right Price" to fly these days. We all know it takes a lot of money to operate an aircraft, so, why are airlines like sheep when it comes to pricing? People complain about Wal-Mart's under pricing, heck, the airlines take the cake --at each other!! If the whole industry crashes (pardon the pun) it isn't because Joe Public bought cheap tickets, it's because the industry sanctioned its own suicide.

 

[JS]

I wonder how the same TV news story would go on a Southwest flight out of a hub without any pro-Southwest spin.

Say they interview people flying BWI-FLL. Some people paid $49 for a BWI-FLL promotional fare, and some people paid $299 from somewhere else, connecting in BWI (higher fares for Alaska, Hawaii or international flights are not possible on WN).

There are typically four fares in each market on WN, so if you take all the possible fares that could include a BWI-FLL leg, the fare list is going to look something like this:

$49
$59
$69
$79
...
$201
$234
...
$299

HOW AWFUL!

 

[ringmaruf]

Yesterday, WTAE ran the 2nd part of the story, on secret tricks on how to save money.

They advocated throw-away ticketing, back-to-back ticketing, and hidden-city ticketing. Wow. :down:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...lo_wtae/2191378

 

[sfb]

javaboy-

The economics of driving don't work well when you're speaking about one person. But if you're talking about a family of four that can all sleep in one hotel room, that $320 looks pretty attractive compared to round-trip airfare of $1200 if the fare is, say, $149 each way per person. How about if a business traveler wants to go to Houston at the last minute -- does she pay $1750 for the non-stop round-trip from PIT, $790 for a double-connect at CLT and ATL both ways, or $620 from CLE with one connection each way? Or do businesses choose to use videoconferencing more often due to high airfares?

JS-

Well the difference in magnitude of fares (as a multiple) would still be there when comparing $49 to $299, but you won't see the absolute difference of $900+ which is just mind-boggling to most people. That $299 fare doesn't seem as shocking to people as the $1,100 fare does. It's also rare to see someone pay less on WN for taking a connection, though it certainly does happen.

It's interesting to read the second part of the report, because all the ticketing practices which are forbidden in the US Airways contract of carriage are permitted on WN. Throw-away, back-to-back, and hidden-city ticketing are all allowed on WN, simply because you're not likely to save much, if any, money by doing it.

 

[TomBascom]

The "perishability" of seats is misleading.

Airlines don't sell seats. The sell a reservation for a chance to board a plane and possibly sit in a particular seat going to a certain place at a given time. Maybe.

They routinely sell more seats than are actually on the plane. And they routinely decide to cancel or delay flights and take off without passengers that are holding a reservation.

The customer is buying a position in a queue. Which is even more ephemeral than a seat. If airlines were selling the seat I could take it home with me -- something that I've occasionally considered after the seat cushion video

 

[TomBascom]

SWA runs an airline for a heck of a lot less than US Airways does. And they're profitable.

The difference? Their customers pay "the right price". In droves. That and the fact that their cost to do so is about half of US' -- a difference that appears to be largely driven by productivity rather than red herrings like "lowest fare", "one fleet type", "point to point flying" and "single class of service".

The right price is the one that maximizes profits. Which is not the same as the highest price you can screw up your courage to publish. Nor is it the same as the price that will get Aunt Sue to fly even though she didn't really have any particular reason to be in Kalamazoo this weekend.

What single factor distinguishes the succesful airlines from those on the threshold of insolvency? A simple and rational fare structure. That's it. The one and only common thread.

 

[TomBascom]

Yesterday, WTAE ran the 2nd part of the story, on secret tricks on how to save money.

They advocated throw-away ticketing, back-to-back ticketing, and hidden-city ticketing. Wow. :down:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...lo_wtae/2191378

Maybe part 3 will be about how consumer groups are considering taking the airlines to court for illegal cartel like behavior in building these barriers to free markets?

Perhaps we'll see a class action that results in the airlines refunding hundreds of billions of dollars to hapless consumers.

 

[Doc]

Maybe part 3 will be about how consumer groups are considering taking the airlines to court for illegal cartel like behavior in building these barriers to free markets?

Perhaps we'll see a class action that results in the airlines refunding hundreds of billions of dollars to hapless consumers.

Yea right and I have a pig at home that can fly

 

[ktflyhome]

Is that the same pig that flew to Seattle a couple of years ago?

 

[TomBascom]

Yea right and I have a pig at home that can fly

It's about as likely as turning a profit under the present scheme...

 

[GadgetFreak]

TomBascom you raise a very interesting point. I dont know if the contract of carriage with all of those rules has been upheld in court. Some of the things would seem really shakey to me. Especially since I can absolutely assure you are not enforced in any consistent way. In fact the structures and rules are so complicated Im not convinced anyone understands them. I have personally been told nested, back to back tickets to the same city to get a cheap fare were okay as long as they were all on the same ticket. Huh? So at the time I bought them and no problem. I know others have had problems with that. It is crazy complicated. I think we also had a recent instance where an associate justice of the US Supreme Court was publically talking about throwaway ticketing he used.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

FirstAmendment, do you really think the city of Pittsburgh is ungrateful to US?

The city and Allegheny County built them an airport.

The people who work at PIT from the surrounding area are glad to have jobs, go to work everyday, get passengers (with their bags) to their destinations, pay their taxes (some of which go to paying for said airport), and enjoy the perks of employment with US.

Major companies have come to the region because of the airport and US's operations there. Those companies employ hundreds of people from the area and bring new people who end up buying homes and raising families in and around Pittsburgh.

But then ACAA is told by a former CEO that US is paying too much for the use of PIT and that costs must come down or the operation will leave the area. Now, this guy figured he had the region between a rock and a hard place. What he didn't count on was stubborn resistance and being treated like the fool that he is.

So, the people of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County call his bluff. The politicians tell this former company destroyer, "Sure, whatever dude. Go do what you have to do. We'll figure out what to do after you renege on promises and pull your troubled company out of here." Well, the company is still here, the people breathe a sigh of relief that they still have jobs, and a certain three-piece-suit-type-of-guy is out looking for another golden parachute that he can add to his collection.

I think that Pittsburgh isn't ungrateful to US. I think that Pittsburgh is disappointed with US. No one likes someone who tries to push them around, and the people of this region will not only push back, but they'll also punch out.

 

[TomBascom]

TomBascom you raise a very interesting point. I dont know if the contract of carriage with all of those rules has been upheld in court. Some of the things would seem really shakey to me. Especially since I can absolutely assure you are not enforced in any consistent way. In fact the structures and rules are so complicated Im not convinced anyone understands them. I have personally been told nested, back to back tickets to the same city to get a cheap fare were okay as long as they were all on the same ticket. Huh? So at the time I bought them and no problem. I know others have had problems with that. It is crazy complicated. I think we also had a recent instance where an associate justice of the US Supreme Court was publically talking about throwaway ticketing he used.

I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that if this kind of stuff were being done in any other industry there would be all sorts of consumer and government types having a field day.

Hopefully it won't matter much longer because airlines that continue these absurdities aren't going to be around.

 

[funguy2]

The other beauty of a simple fare structure is this:

If you don't force your best customers to jump through hoops to get a decent fare, maybe they will fly more often because of the ease of using your product. Maybe, if you don't have to figure out how to reduce that fare from astronaumical to reasonable via back-to-back ticketing, throw away ticketing, etc, that you plan an extra trip to visit junior at college homecoming this year because, "it sounds like fun and was easy enough to buy my ticket".