US Airways is at it Again-Things That make you go WTF!

[Toothy Grin]

Oh btw to the non industry person I remember a lOooong time ago when I first got into this industry that the running joke was that the only ones who had more acronyms and abbreviations in use was the military.

The use of these abbrs. stems from using them for all the different destinations we fly to. ...within our airline groups well say I'm working a sjc trip over the interphone to the passengers we say San Jose - it's just short hand no harm intended.

 

[Newman]

[quote na every thread have to get personal?

Back to the topic.....whatever happened, I think that there is fault to be found both with the customer and the agent....it appears both perhaps overreacted to a situation which easily could have been diffused (or maybe not so easily). There are good and bad customers AND agents, but I think the safest bet here is to say it was likely an overreaction on both parts and move on.....




Most likely an overworked CSA. With staffing levels so deplorably low, and shifts that aren't covered, tempers are quick to flare when something goes wrong. You know what I mean, Art

 

[N965VJ]

Yep, better to take her off the plane before the plane takes off. I wouldn't let anyone take a pic of an airport badge...I wouldn't want some terrorist getting to the plane with a counterfeit version of my badge.

Was law enforcement summoned and any charges filed? I'm really getting tired of customers being removed from aircraft over fears of tewwowism.

I've seen agents get fired immediately, no matter how many years with airline, because TSA was conducting security sweeps and the agent violated a security issue.

If this is true, this is yet another example of an out of control TSA that needs to be chained back and stick to nothing more that screening people and bags for weapons, explosives and incendiaries using x-ray, metal detectors and explosive trace portals. Sticking their nose into other areas is a reason why the Red Team failure rates are off the charts.

The first one (Pax) is insulting and dehumanizing to those who pay your salary.

It's cool, you don't work in this industry so we don't expect you to really understand the terms and jargon we use.

Welp, if you don't like the parlance we employ maybe you should go be a CUSTOMER on a different airline. Good luck finding one that doesn't use the word "pax".

Once upon a time there was an airline that decided referring to customers as "passengers" would no longer be acceptable. This filtered through internal memos, and even during recurrent the instructors used the word "customer" instead of "passenger".

Who was this airline? US in the 90s back when this joint was determined to provide world class service, and a note to the bean counters in Rio Dorito this little initiative cost nothing.

But it's ok for you to call the f/a's gossips ect. like you did a few weeks back WTF!

Actually that was me that brought that subject up a few weeks ago. When you've spent as much time on the jumpseat as I have, you might agree with me.

 

[Toothy Grin]

Ok. Brace yourselves here is the clip and I just cringed when I heard Keith's remarks.

Like I said before this is just to much IMHOP.

http://current.com/shows/countdown/video/worst-persons-a-thief-a-flake-and-a-flight-risk

 

[ChockJockey]

Once upon a time there was an airline that decided referring to customers as "passengers" would no longer be acceptable. This filtered through internal memos, and even during recurrent the instructors used the word "customer" instead of "passenger".

Who was this airline? US in the 90s back when this joint was determined to provide world class service, and a note to the bean counters in Rio Dorito this little initiative cost nothing.

Huh. Looks like that little initiative worked out pretty well in the long term. This must have been before my time, when the cost of time spent training people and drafting and distributing memos was zero...

But I can see what you mean. The other day I was at a baseball game and the announcer of all people referred to the audience as sports fans ("fans" for short)! Can you believe it? I felt insulted because of how presumptive they were being in assuming I was a "fanatic" of "sports" simply because I paid money to intently watch a sporting event for several hours. Without a moniker that constantly reminded the stadium staff of the money I paid THEM how can they possibly give me a premium level of service?! Although I was outraged I decided to stay for the duration of the game. During the entire nine innings never did the announcer ONCE refer to us as CUSTOMERS. After I got home I sobbed for several hours and then after putting myself back together I sent several angry letters.

 

[SparrowHawk]

One of the more interesting observations is the reaction to my comments regarding using the acronym PAX vs Customer.

Pre merger I gave my opinion on this topic and after making my point, most here began to grasp my point. I decided to raise it again as a test of attitude. I went through this thread and the folks who clearly started with HP think my point is just silly and that's fine by me. Conversely those from the original US seem to grasp and even support my position.

I find this interesting and telling. What exactly it tells us is certainly open to interpretation. It has occurred to me that both attitudes came down from the top. Anyone who worked at US during the Wolf years recalls the "Images of Excellence" book that detailed how front liners how to dress and more IIRC.

OTOH, HP, due to it's fight for survival against WN has a very different attitude towards Customers that is evident here, in the airport & in flight. This is also a reflection of the leadership at HP.

This difference in attitudes could explain a great many things up to and including the current pilot impasse. The attitude towards the customer starts at the top.

As to the issue of Toniella G's conduct and the Customer and the fact that the manager, Mr. Lofton openly supported the employee to the max also speaks volumes as well. in my observation, US/HP has a history of throwing employees under the bus in situations like this. It didn't happen this time and it makes me think the customer in question is not telling the whole story as it is not favorable to her.

Kieth Olberman is such a horses arse. I can practically guarantee that he did little if any fact checking before his rant. I've weighed what we know and I'm on the Employee side on this one.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Huh. Looks like that little initiative worked out pretty well in the long term. This must have been before my time, when the cost of time spent training people and drafting and distributing memos was zero...

But I can see what you mean. The other day I was at a baseball game and the announcer of all people referred to the audience as sports fans ("fans" for short)! Can you believe it? I felt insulted because of how presumptive they were being in assuming I was a "fanatic" of "sports" simply because I paid money to intently watch a sporting event for several hours. Without a moniker that constantly reminded the stadium staff of the money I paid THEM how can they possibly give me a premium level of service?! Although I was outraged I decided to stay for the duration of the game. During the entire nine innings never did the announcer ONCE refer to us as CUSTOMERS. After I got home I sobbed for several hours and then after putting myself back together I sent several angry letters.

I decided to raise it again as a test of attitude.

YEAH...RIGHT....

I was on the BART last week and the safety sign referred to me as a rider. The OUTRAGE! I walked across the street and the sign referred to me as a pedestrian! I paid for that sign!! Just you wait till Ron Paul is president, he will fix this!!!!

 

[SparrowHawk]

YEAH...RIGHT....

I was on the BART last week and the safety sign referred to me as a rider. The OUTRAGE! I walked across the street and the sign referred to me as a pedestrian! I paid for that sign!! Just you wait till Ron Paul is president, he will fix this!!!!

Yet another reason to elect Ron Paul.

View attachment 9127

Part of a very "Tight" group that is "Firm" in their support of Dr. Paul

 

[ChockJockey]

One of the more interesting observations is the reaction to my comments regarding using the acronym PAX vs Customer.

Pre merger I gave my opinion on this topic and after making my point, most here began to grasp my point. I decided to raise it again as a test of attitude. I went through this thread and the folks who clearly started with HP think my point is just silly and that's fine by me. Conversely those from the original US seem to grasp and even support my position.

I find this interesting and telling. What exactly it tells us is certainly open to interpretation. It has occurred to me that both attitudes came down from the top. Anyone who worked at US during the Wolf years recalls the "Images of Excellence" book that detailed how front liners how to dress and more IIRC.

OTOH, HP, due to it's fight for survival against WN has a very different attitude towards Customers that is evident here, in the airport & in flight. This is also a reflection of the leadership at HP.

In a former life I had a tiff with a director of training because in the inventory procedures we'd drafted we had included contingencies for what to do when the point of sale system was offline. Because it was a crappy system this wasn't a rare thing to happen. My senior management coworker insisted we could never refer to the POS system as being "down", rather we had to say it was "unavailable". This was very important to him. Why it was so often down and what was being done about it he didn't care, his concern was solely with how the salespeople perceived such an outage, as if it mattered. See, some people are focused on actually getting their hands dirty to solve problems, not just pretending that window dressing them with pretty word changes is going to make any kind of a difference at all.

Simply because I don't inconvenience myself by calling them "CUSTOMERS" when the context doesn't call for it doesn't mean I don't bust my hump to give the best kind of service I can to our pax. When I think of a "passenger" I think of a human being that's trusting US with his/her life and property; that they paid money for this obvious, and to me, secondary. Sorry if I insist on seeing our passengers as something more than a financial transaction. The fact of the matter is most people don't care what you collectively refer to them as long as you're being respectful and attentive.

For as many thousands of flights you've been on and all the VIP's you've talked to the truth is that until you've done my job and seen the lengths our front line employees have gone just to make a single connecting bag or on time departure, often if not usually unnoticed and thanklessly, you have NO right to pretend that you have any kind of authority whatsoever in declaring what words we should or should not be using in the course of doing our jobs. You think that the term "pax" is demeaning? I think it's demeaning that you presume to know what the term "pax" means to us when you've never even worked for an airline (whereas I've been a paying passenger many times myself).

Given all the operational challenges facing this airline to even consider something like this as a solution is laughable. Just more of the feelgood NewSpeak BS that allows self-important corporate types to justify their overpaid positions all the while congratulating themselves on their profound grasp of human psychology and airline operations. It's obvious you get all worked up about being the Customer's Crusader™ but maybe you're just indicative of a larger societal problem, that in which overly-sensitive people blow out of proportion every perceived insult and injustice no matter how meaningless just so they can keep on playing the victim and keeping the attention on themselves...

 

[SparrowHawk]

Chock,

I get your point and something that infuriates me is the use of language to obfuscate instead of clarify which is the purpose of language. Nowhere is this worse than in the political arena. Most call it spin and it's rampant.

As to your job, I had the opportunity to visit the ramp in PHL in '04 and frankly I was appalled at the conditions there. We had time to observe quite a bit of how the work flows and I recall vividly walking upstairs thinking, "It's a wonder any bags get where they're supposed to." I don't think the infrastructure has been updated since the Nixon Administration. My experience observing about one hour of your work day was one of the reasons I publicly called for Al Crellin's resignation after the Christmas Meltdown. It spoiled my relationship with US Management which was probably a bad thing to do in terms of influencing the airline. Chiames went bat shite on me and I got an enema kit in the mail. It was kind of the high point of my crusade. All I will add in regards to my visit behind the curtain is to say that it was an eye opener as to what it's like to be an airline employee. It's one of the reasons I hammer DP & SK at every turn. You guys get treated like crap and frankly I don't like spending money with a company that treats its employees poorly. It's why I don't go to Wal-Mart.

Speaking of the "Training Community", don't even get me started on them when it comes to use of language. My Title for the first 4 years was "Sales Trainer", then they decided I was a "Learning Facilitator". My job didn't change even a little. PAX vs Customer is a giant pet peeve of mine if you hadn't noticed. To me it goes to the attitude of airlines towards customers. a "PAX" to me dehumanizes people which to me is proof that airline management doesn't respect the customer. "Sports Fan" is a descriptor of a person. WTF is a PAX? get my point? If not that's cool. as I think you "Get It" in terms of what I'm really talking about.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I won't get in the middle of a healthy sparring watch over the name that is applied to the people who buy tickets to ride on commercial aircraft other than to say that the name that was applied was the least of the issues in this case.
Neither are abbreviations. yes, airlines use them but so do lots of other industries. It is NEVER good to use "internal" language when speaking to someone "outside" of the group.... but given the diversity of the world we live in, it is increasingly difficult to know the baseline from which you as a communicator should start at when speaking to people. That said, known internal monikers should be saved for breakroom conversations or outside of the hearing of customers.
.
BTW, other airlines have chosen to refer to their customers as "guests".... as do some retailers. It may attempt to help employees see those who pay their salaries in a different light but that can and should be done regardless of the language that is used. It is up to each employee and manager of an organization to define the perceptions and values they have about customers.
IN this day and age, most people on any airline expect coach to be hassle free basic transportation; names are not expected, ordinary courtesies of humanity are. Airlines are no different from most customer service companies in the US that they fail to deliver even on that point... and most customer service employees see the people who pay their salaries as interruptions and inconveniences; it's not wonder the customer service experience in the US is so bad.
.
Keith Oberman's comments validate exactly what I said would happen... the customer service agent and US Airways might have won the little p78ssing match with the uh - passenger - but they lost the war - big time.
Everyone in the world - at his request - will be looking not only for what's her name's name tag when they pass through PHL on US... and they will be looking at a whole lot of other airline employee nametags as well... suppose the accuracy of names that - passengers use - when writing complaint letters will go up markedly as a result of this incident? I'm betting on it.
.

win the battle, lose the war.

 

[john john]

That isn't legal in Philadelphia. You can't record video/audio of someone without their knowledge and permission in Pennsylvania.

So all that video (TSA, local authorities) at all the airports in PA. is illegal

 

[john john]

Everyone in the world - at his request - will be looking not only for what's her name's name tag when they pass through PHL on US... and they will be looking at a whole lot of other airline employee nametags as well... suppose the accuracy of names that - passengers use - when writing complaint letters will go up markedly as a result of this incident? I'm betting on it.
.

win the battle, lose the war.

Hostile work environment that management must control
Created by a picture taker

 

[cynic]

So all that video (TSA, local authorities) at all the airports in PA. is illegal

Seriously?
Rather than just admit that you didn't know about that particular law, you come back with that?

 

[john john]

That isn't legal in Philadelphia. You can't record video/audio of someone without their knowledge and permission in Pennsylvania.

So all that video (TSA, local authorities) at all the airports in PA. is illegal

Well?
Seriously?