What would happend if we merge again?

[Dog Wonder]

Sounds like a horror movie.

The Arrogant Knowitalls Versus The Arrogant Knowitalls Redux.

The original is now playing in this forum.

'Second verse, same as the first. A little bit louder, and a liittle bit worse.'

Imagine that.

 

[ChockJockey]

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

IF, this took place then PHL & PHX look in peril.

 

[ChockJockey]

IF, this took place then PHL & PHX look in peril.

Hard to say. US has a higher capacity operation in PHX than AA seems to have at LAX.

AA @ LAX (including Eagle):
Departures per day: 126
Gates: 14
Destinations: ~41
Widebody service to Shanghai, Tokyo and Heathrow

US @ PHX (including Express):
Flights per day: 281
Gates: 56
Destinations: 75

 

[StewGuy86]

How does EVERYTHING on this board become yet another pi$$ing contest with the pilots? I swear there could be a thread titled "What Color Should First Class Blankets Be?" and within the span of 3 or 4 posts it will have been hijacked by pilots hurling childish comments back and forth at each other. Enough already! Geezus!!

 

[FWAAA]

Hard to say. US has a higher capacity operation in PHX than AA seems to have at LAX.

I'm not sure that tells the whole story. Los Angeles and Phoenix are completely different air travel markets. One is the second largest metro area in the country and the primary gateway to Asia. Phoenix?

AA @ LAX (including Eagle):
Departures per day: 126
Gates: 14
Destinations: ~41
Widebody service to Shanghai, Tokyo and Heathrow

And ten widebodies a day to JFK plus several widebodies per day to/from MIA, depending on the season. And partners that fly several daily flights from LAX to top business markets like LHR, HKG, South America and Australia. And talk that some of AA's 777-300ERs will be used to expand the international reach of AA at LAX.

No doubt, US is the big fish in the small pond that is PHX. I'm just not certain that a combined AA/US would have as much use for PHX as US currently does. To carry connecting traffic between the east and the west, AA has 1,000 departure (or nearly 1,000 departure) DFW. PHX become an Asian gateway? I don't see it happening, neither as a replacement for or supplement to LAX. In a combined AA/US, I see PHX being as strategically important to the combined airline as STL has been for AA/TWA.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

You left something out. What would happen to "Those that attempt to disrupt operations".

I wonder if "shilling for management" was part of his back to work agreement?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Hard to say. US has a higher capacity operation in PHX than AA seems to have at LAX.

AA @ LAX (including Eagle):
Departures per day: 126
Gates: 14
Destinations: ~41
Widebody service to Shanghai, Tokyo and Heathrow

US @ PHX (including Express):
Flights per day: 281
Gates: 56
Destinations: 75

LAX is an international gateway, PHX is not.

LAX is a business destination, PHX is not in the ball park.

LAX is a major O&D operation, PHX is not.

LAX, as a hub, makes sense. PHX, as a leisure (conventioneering) destination, only makes sense if otherwise O&D traffic is forced through it by limiting non-stop available seats, at great relative cost offset, in part, by low labor cost.

As an aside, number of gates means nothing. In tempe's case, all those gates mean too many aircraft just sitting around. Like management in tempe.

Oh, and quoting USAirway's own stats is pretty silly. What happened with wiki? Also, you may also wish to combine AA and LCC operations at LAX and compare it to AA and LCC operations in PHX. Just to keep you comparing apples with apples.

 

[Move2CLT]

LAX is an international gateway, PHX is not.

LAX is a business destination, PHX is not in the ball park.

LAX is a major O&D operation, PHX is not.

LAX, as a hub, makes sense. PHX, as a leisure (conventioneering) destination, only makes sense if otherwise O&D traffic is forced through it by limiting non-stop available seats, at great relative cost offset, in part, by low labor cost.

As an aside, number of gates means nothing. In tempe's case, all those gates mean too many aircraft just sitting around. Like management in tempe.

Oh, and quoting USAirway's own stats is pretty silly. What happened with wiki? Also, you may also wish to combine AA and LCC operations at LAX and compare it to AA and LCC operations in PHX. Just to keep you comparing apples with apples.

DOT data: 25 Largest US Domestic O&D Airports lined up per boarding’s

1. LAX
2. LAS
3. MCO
4. ORD
5. ATL
6. DEN
7. SFO
8. PHX
9. BOS
10. SEA
11. DFW
12. LGA
13. JFK
14. FLL
15. PHL
16. BWI
17. SAN
18. EWR
19. MSP
20. TPA
21. DTW
22. DCA
23. MDW
24. MIA
25. HNL

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

DOT data: 25 Largest US Domestic O&D Airports lined up per boarding’s

1. LAX
8. PHX

Thank you, you made my point.

Now, could you please cite a reference? Latest equals 2009?

Reason I ask is because of AZ's latest "birth certificate" law that drove a tremendous amount of convention traffic (non-leisure travel but considered O&D traffic) from PHX to LAS and LAX since before summer of 2010.

 

[john john]

DOT data: 25 Largest US Domestic O&D Airports lined up per boarding’s

1. LAX
2. LAS
3. MCO
4. ORD
5. ATL
6. DEN
7. SFO
8. PHX
9. BOS
10. SEA
11. DFW
12. LGA
13. JFK
14. FLL
15. PHL
16. BWI
17. SAN
18. EWR
19. MSP
20. TPA
21. DTW
22. DCA
23. MDW
24. MIA
25. HNL

Link please

 

[flybynite]

How would a merger / seniority integation likely play out?

1. There is no single collective bargaining agreement between East and West.
2. There is no single seniority liste between East and West
3. Even Judge Wake stated that without a single agreement he could not impose a seniroty list.
4. The McKaskill / Bond provisions will apply
5. The West cannot impose Nicolau
6. The East cannot impose Date of Hire
7. Each party East, West and APA will have the opportunity to negotiate, or arbitrate as stated in the MB Amendment.
8. The Trick for USAPA is to ensure that West pilots receive adequate financial support so that they can hire their own merger counsel and have complete freedome to seek their own interests.
9. The financial distribution could be done by assessment of all members of the bargaining unit and then divided based on population. That way the WEst would be in effect assessing themselves and paying for their own support. It might require an overide of some amount to account for the lack of infrastructure that the West has for administrative work. The East dues support the Office / Staff etc.

10, Parker has stated that this is a likely outcome in crew news videos. He was very quick to say that this was simple, each party would seek its own interests. He likes it because it relieves him of the company's DFR responsibility.

Wow.....you're forgetting the flight attendants.

The reps for AA F/A's is the APFA while we are AFA. We'd have to go thru a union vote too. Might be ughly.

 

[flybynite]

How would a merger / seniority integation likely play out?

1. There is no single collective bargaining agreement between East and West.
2. There is no single seniority liste between East and West
3. Even Judge Wake stated that without a single agreement he could not impose a seniroty list.
4. The McKaskill / Bond provisions will apply
5. The West cannot impose Nicolau
6. The East cannot impose Date of Hire
7. Each party East, West and APA will have the opportunity to negotiate, or arbitrate as stated in the MB Amendment.
8. The Trick for USAPA is to ensure that West pilots receive adequate financial support so that they can hire their own merger counsel and have complete freedome to seek their own interests.
9. The financial distribution could be done by assessment of all members of the bargaining unit and then divided based on population. That way the WEst would be in effect assessing themselves and paying for their own support. It might require an overide of some amount to account for the lack of infrastructure that the West has for administrative work. The East dues support the Office / Staff etc.

10, Parker has stated that this is a likely outcome in crew news videos. He was very quick to say that this was simple, each party would seek its own interests. He likes it because it relieves him of the company's DFR responsibility.

Wow.....you're forgetting the flight attendants.

The reps for AA F/A's is the APFA while we are AFA. We'd have to go thru a union vote too. Might be ughly.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Now, could you please cite a reference? Latest equals 2009?

There's a delay because it's based on the 10% sample of tickets submitted by the airlines. The Dec data isn't submitted till the 1st quarter of the following year and then the analysis of the raw data has to be done. 2010's stats should be out this quarter sometime.

Remember that big tourist destinations rank highly because of the tourist O&D - just look at MCO & LAS. If it were possible to break resident O&D out from the total their rankings would drop considerably. Also, try not to put too much faith in the PR surrounding things like trying to convince conventions to stay away from LAS. The noise is always greater than the effect.

Jim

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Also, try not to put too much faith in the PR surrounding things like trying to convince conventions to stay away from LAS.

Thanks, as I thought, about the data delay.

I know Caesar's in LAS is VERY grateful for the relocation of convention business from PHX to LAS.