What would happend if we merge again?

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Fine, cite the "facts" on revenue at PHX since no airline publicly breaks out revenue by individual airport.

Jim

BTS, yea great! remember PEOPLES , JIM! REVENUE is key!, you answered your own fallacy, cite "YOUR FACTS ON OD REVENUE", you truly are a contrarian aren't you! MM!

 

[BoeingBoy]

BTS, yea great! remember PEOPLES , JIM! REVENUE is key!, you answered your own fallacy, cite "YOUR FACTS ON OD REVENUE", you truly are a contrarian aren't you! MM!

Speaking in tongues much? I cited the BTS breakdown for the largest 5 carriers at PHX. I didn't say a word about "FACTS ON OD REVENUE". I said "largest", not most revenue, highest revenue, most profits, or anything else - just LARGEST. You're the one that brought revenue up so let's see the supporting data. Unlike you I try to make sure what I post is accurate. I don't just throw out stuff I make up. Here's mine - just select PHX in the top right dropdown menu.

BTS for PHX

Jim

PS - PROFITS are key. Revenue doesn't mean squat if it's less than expenses. At least for most people and businesses. You may be the exception that proves the rule, though.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Now, don't go confusing the east with facts, you saw what happened when the injunction came out. It hurt their self esteem, something fierce!

I'm not into rubbing anyone's nose in stuff or gloating as it is a bit unprofessional especially coming from someone who proclaims to be the ultimate in ethics, morality and professionalism.

I'm not sure who doesn't know that in PHX US Airways is the market leader in terms of market share of customers flying.

What is also is true is that long before anyone ever heard of HP, US Air(ways) has ALWAYS had a revenue premium on the East Coast that is well documented. One could argue that the traditional revenue premium US held was what kept US alive long enough to merge with HP.

Going one step further, the same traditional revenue premium allowed for US to plaster over the structural flaws that sent US headlong towards BKI and 2.

I'd also add that most airlines have hubs that make money on volume and others that make money on yield. Doesn't mean you can't have both. In fact one could argue that the volume in PHX adds to the traditional revenue premium in the east where LCC's are less dominant.

A merger with AA would not be good for workers IMO, which if I recall was the topic at hand.????

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I'm not into rubbing anyone's nose in stuff or gloating as it is a bit unprofessional especially coming from someone who proclaims to be the ultimate in ethics, morality and professionalism.

No, you just gleefully spread lies and defame people (Kirby), and then scramble to try to prove it, then get your ass handed to you when you realize that you were very wrong.


(BTW, I don't proclaim to be the ultimate in ethics, morality and professionalism, but, you are the ultimate in hyperbole)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Very good SH - you have picked up quite a bit here and there. I'd just add that US also had a significant cost "premium" that exceeded it's revenue premium. Hence not a single annual operating profit for the 5 years before the merger, again per the BTS.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

No, you just gleefully spread lies and defame people (Kirby), and then scramble to try to prove it, then get your ass handed to you when you realize that you were very wrong.

Let's apply the legal standard shall we?

"The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, however, dramatically changed the nature of libel law in the United States by establishing that public officials could win a suit for libel only if they could demonstrate publishers' "knowledge that the information was false" or that it was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." Later Supreme Court cases barred strict liability for libel and forbid libel claims for statements that are so ridiculous as to be patently false. Recent cases have addressed defamation law and the Internet."

In the beginning I had what I believed to be credible evidence to go along with a personal dislike of the person in question. There was no "Reckless Disregard" then or now. Reckless disregard would have been to continue to push the issue knowing I had insufficient evidence to fairly or accurately do so.

Whether you want to believe it or not there was some activity and evidence to support the claims! but IMO no where near enough to go to the media which again would have based upon the information collected been reckless disregard. I will NOT concede that I was wrong! NEVER said I was wrong. What I did say was that I looked and could not find enough information to substantiate a charge. That's still the case and frankly it isn't worth the effort to keep digging as US has done a remarkable job of circling the wagons and contacts that usually couldn't wait to dish dirt were suddenly zipped of lip. Now then if there is nothing to hide why be so tight lipped? Why have a different security procedure when the plane arrived in PHL that afternoon? My RPG is fresh out of ammo which is what I'd need to get to the bottom of the story.

DO NOT put words in my mouth as I did not Libel anyone. Get it? Got It? GREAT. Now run along and play with the rest of the executive sycophants. BTW just exactly how would YOU know anymore than I about what happened? If you know more cool, document it here, let's see it! Got access to sworn statements from your big HR lackey Job?

HR, the great corporate backwater where people who can't generate revenue for their company end up. Come out here on the pointy end of the spear and try and sell somebody something otherwise pizz off!

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Boycotts? Protests? Discriminatory stops? All make for great news but, in reality, don't exist here in Phoenix.

As I said. Phew, do you even bother reading first?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Let's apply the legal standard shall we?

"The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, however, dramatically changed the nature of libel law in the United States by establishing that public officials could win a suit for libel only if they could demonstrate publishers' "knowledge that the information was false" or that it was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." Later Supreme Court cases barred strict liability for libel and forbid libel claims for statements that are so ridiculous as to be patently false. Recent cases have addressed defamation law and the Internet."

In the beginning I had what I believed to be credible evidence to go along with a personal dislike of the person in question. There was no "Reckless Disregard" then or now. Reckless disregard would have been to continue to push the issue knowing I had insufficient evidence to fairly or accurately do so.

Whether you want to believe it or not there was some activity and evidence to support the claims! but IMO no where near enough to go to the media which again would have based upon the information collected been reckless disregard. I will NOT concede that I was wrong! NEVER said I was wrong. What I did say was that I looked and could not find enough information to substantiate a charge. That's still the case and frankly it isn't worth the effort to keep digging as US has done a remarkable job of circling the wagons and contacts that usually couldn't wait to dish dirt were suddenly zipped of lip. Now then if there is nothing to hide why be so tight lipped? Why have a different security procedure when the plane arrived in PHL that afternoon? My RPG is fresh out of ammo which is what I'd need to get to the bottom of the story.

DO NOT put words in my mouth as I did not Libel anyone. Get it? Got It? GREAT. Now run along and play with the rest of the executive sycophants. BTW just exactly how would YOU know anymore than I about what happened? If you know more cool, document it here, let's see it! Got access to sworn statements from your big HR lackey Job?

HR, the great corporate backwater where people who can't generate revenue for their company end up. Come out here on the pointy end of the spear and try and sell somebody something otherwise pizz off!

Aw, I made the filing cabinet tycoon angry. Fact is, you had a crappy, unsourced story and you were giddy, you were giggly as a schoolgirl. The mighty SparrowBob was going to play Woodward and Bernstein on the airline he hated and obsessed on for so long.

Did you learn? Probably not, your ego will get you into trouble again, and your hubris will sustain you till next time you mess up.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Aw, I made the filing cabinet tycoon angry. Fact is, you had a crappy, unsourced story and you were giddy, you were giggly as a schoolgirl. The mighty SparrowBob was going to play Woodward and Bernstein on the airline he hated and obsessed on for so long.

Did you learn? Probably not, your ego will get you into trouble again, and your hubris will sustain you till next time you mess up.

Prove it was a crappy story? You're the one who insists on making it an issue. I showed what little I had. I showed ya mine, now you show me yours. Otherwise leave it be and allow it to die a peaceful death.


HR, the great corporate backwater where people who can't generate revenue for their company end up. Come out here on the pointy end of the spear and try and sell somebody something otherwise pizz off!

 

[mrbreeze]

I think Doug is speaking to AMR about a deal. The following information is more of the rumor type with comments and speculation, but here's my take.

1. There are message board reports on USaviation.com's website that APA President Dave Bates briefed the MIA Domicile late last month that he was recently at an industry conference, he personally talked to Scott Kirby, and Bates indicated US Airways was targeting AMR.

2. DFW station personnel are telling crews that Doug Parker, Scott Kirby, Robert Isom, and Derek Kerr have been regularly flying in and out of DFW.

3. A colleague of ours I spoke with recently spoke with a Virgin America crew. The Virgin Crew said Parker recently flew between LAX and DFW (to hide his whereabouts?) on Virgin.

4. In last month's PHX F/A Crew News (I believe the F/A session - may have been one of the other 3 sessions) when the AMR merger question was asked, Parker confirmed he's been going to DFW on business.

5. I believe the slot transaction may no longer be desirable if a deal proceeds with AMR. in fact, at last week's Annual US Airways Management Conference in PHX the "executive suite" was not in attendance, which is unusual. Where were all of the Officers?

6. Yesterday US Airways' Market Capitalization was $810.41 million. American's Market Capitalization was even less at $801.14 million, which makes an out of bankruptcy stock swap attractive, but still leaves the combined company with too high of costs.

This is all rumor type information, although I believe all of the five points above to be true. Here's where I'm going with this:

Fall Quarter - LOA 93 decision goes against USAPA and union neutered by Preliminary Injunction court order.

December 2011 - Slot Transaction decision

March 2012 - Bid to acquire AMR, pre-packaged bankruptcy to preserve cash, agreements with AMR unions to freeze pension/create a DC Plan, promise to APA/USAPA of DAL +1%, agreements with Boeing/Airbus and other creditors to keep aircraft, engine, and other deliveries intact.

December 2012 - DJ lawsuit decision, federal government does not oppose merger and US Airways-AMR file Hart-Scott-Rodino notice.

US Airways surviving entity, which bypasses East COC provision. Combined business entity called American Airlines. Pilot's offered DAL + 1 percent to support deal. Assuming the District Court rules the Nicolau Award is the list then this would be USAPA's list when we enter into the MacCaskill-Bond federal law seniority integration.

The NMB holds a representation election. APA becomes our union and Cleary & Co. is removed from office. Parker does not have to deal with USAPA ever again, USAPA folds, and Parker gets what he wants.

As a colleague of ours said, "(Parkers) got a court's decision that US Airways' pilots even so much as calling in fatigued may be in violation of the RLA. What more could the CEO of a LCC want? Checkmate."

WHOA!!!

This is unbelievable!

This takes precedence over awaiting the LOA93 decision....that's peanuts compared to this.

I am on the edge of my seat awaiting for you to indicate the right time to sell all my worldly possesions and buy the stock involved with this transaction.

I just can't wait to lose another $30,000 on your self hyped, juicey wet dream of euphoria.....just like the one from 11 yrs ago, where you convinced many people to bet the farm.

You are a sick man.

breeze

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Suppose the reason for the trips to DFW are US joining OneWorld? :blink:

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Suppose the reason for the trips to DFW are US joining OneWorld? :blink:

Might be. US has trouble supporting half of Europe with the poorly maintained A/C they have, with at least one letter from SA stating that SA would be sending customers to other SA carriers who could actually support the city pair with proper equipment. Hence, when Mr. Mugshot tells us we are "pulling out due to a lack of revenue", he is partially correct.

Hell, they are trying to ramrod an absolute ETOPS violation through the FAA, proving that tempe is willing to lie first, apologize later, tossing low end employees under the bus so that the execs won't have to go to jail.

Some truly disgusting bipedal droolers in PHX. Oh, scabs, too.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Might be. US has trouble supporting half of Europe with the poorly maintained A/C they have, with at least one letter from SA stating that SA would be sending customers to other SA carriers who could actually support the city pair with proper equipment.

Most interesting. Would love to see the source or more info. ( I am not doubting you, just find it verrrry interesting) [who was it on Laugh In who did that ?]

 

[FWAAA]

That was Arte Johnson's Laugh-In catch phrase.

 

[JayBrian]

That was Arte Johnson's Laugh-In catch phrase.

"You bet your Bippy"