What Davex2 Want From Pilots

[PITbull]

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If a person hates working at US Airways they have the option to resign and go work somewhere else. Furthermore, before the resignation or liquidation, I believe its' better to have a job while searching for another job because you have pay, benefits, and travel privileges during the transition versus unemployment and Cobra..


Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

A320,

No one hates the company. We've been here a long time, through good and bad...what we want is this mangement team to leave. We are not leaving. And we will not give this team "cart blanche" and open our agreements absent of any viable business plan that first addresses the aforementioned in the above post I wrote. The duty rig issues and deadhead issue will not solve mangement's problems, and relief in the IAM language on the heavy maintenance work will not and should not happen. Period. Like it, or lump it, it is what you will have to live with. And coming on here upseting the groups with your selfish, one-sided, all-about-me-and-what-I-think-has -to- be tone, or else, won't work.

I am a f/a, and I would rather see the highway then give this mangement work rules that will directly devistate the group that gives, or adversely and indirectly would eliminate another. Quality of life issues for our particular group has been grossly effected. For a few, they can still manage, for many, many f/as, they can not. I repeat again to you, if folks resign, they cannot collect unemployment or serverance to transition to another job. So leaving and resigning is not an option.

Your group is the only group, absent of an education, will not be able to find the same income out in the "real world" as you like to call it. It is to the pilots disadvantage that they happen to share employment with a company that has different crafts and classes of people that can surely find other work out there at the salaries and wages they are accustomed to.

You need to get a grip, and prepare for the worst. If anything comes to a vote, I personally will vote my vote on what I can live with taking into account all of the above. And I will not look back.

PS: Not sure you are aware, but the voluntary furloughees and the folks on the street, and the MAA employees have to pay COBRA. For the first 6 months with MAA employees, before they can participate in the co. contribution plan, they are going to have to pay the COBRA rates or go without medical. It does not deter them from participating and signing up for the VF nor applying for MAA. So much for your theory and fear tactics.

In addtion, the f/a Voluntary furlough was only open for 7 days and not everyone was notified that there was a Vol. furlough being offered. There were over 300 applicants to go out, and only 200 will be awarded in light of the fact that these vol furloughs are 16 months and 22 months long in duration. Last Sept., the duration was much longer and still over 300 applicants with a very short window to apply.

With our group, they've had it. With your group, obviously, they have not.

 

[cavalier]

Winglet,

We've already downsized. The more we downsize, the more the LCC carriers come in to fill the capacity we left behind. Our flights are full. We broke records for trafffic in Janaury. The problems are the lack of utilization of the planes, gates, route structure, and fare price inconsistencies. Fuel should be hedged, and mangement should be trying to bridge relationships. Trust is vital at this juncture, and you can't just will the ill feelings to evaporate. This management has taken no steps to change the way we do business

You can always throw money at problems to keep afloat, but at the end of the day, the holes still exist. Modifying our work rules absent the above first, will only "burnout" your labor force and create more ill will, bad press, pax discontent, and failure.

Then tell us the answer Pitbull...what would you do if you were king for a day?

What steps are necessary without touching contracts or headcount?

Can the things you may present be done in a tight time frame as per Dave B’s statements so we don't perish?

What will it take to heal the wounds of malcontent and distrust given Dave S must stay as Dave B, the man holding all the cards, demands?

Maybe management will read your words and take heed.

I am asking in earnest because I don't have a clue if it's even possible to save the ship given all the obstacles ahead, especially since Dave B is the card holder and his last words were a simple, work it out or else.

Maybe you think it’s all one big threat and not true reality, that they are playing the old tried and proved game of bluffing to squeeze labor for more?

Everyone including myself says Jerry and Dave are at fault, we will not give more of anything which is money or headcount. We are in a very tight time frame, the airline is on the auction block with interested parties looking, so what is the answer knowing before you even answer that’s not our job to manage, but also realizing management is out of options, according to them anyway.

So with everyone including myself crying no more than what’s the answer, or is that a question no one can answer?

 

[Diesel8]

Well, it seems like management is not done yet with the great U employees, another round of scare tactics, threats of liquidation etc, before offering just a few more cuts in work rules, quality of life and pay.

Is there a solution? I do not know, but I am sad to see you all have to put up with this bs on such a continual basis. No, I do not work at U, but at this point, having seen and read, I have the deepest sympathy for you all.

 

[PITbull]

Cav,

Get real. Its not a question to answer if I were King for any day. I have already offered up some suggestions in this post. I am not concerned with whether its a bluff or reality, or true. I've been there, done that, seen that, heard that, gave that, and so on and so on... We all have.

Better A/c utilization, gate utilization, route restructuring, rolling hubs, (which does not need work rule changes), fare price consistencies and rationalization, improve labor relations, and fire certain key managers that have a hx of poor relations as a sign of change. MAA was proposed as the answer to the LCC insurgence. What happened to that concept and why was relief given for the RJs from the pilots? Just for not? Just so we could see our work outsourced for "0" return? They can't even get that off the ground.

Competition is the nature of this industry and the nature of this beast. WE are not a rent-car company. The BOD who hired Siegel should have seen that and known that. WE gave management the tools to make it happen, they still have no vision, and they still have not defined what USAirways is and what kind of airline. At present, we are at square one again with the "fate of the carrier in jeopardy".

Management wants the easy way out. They don't have the right team and key folks sitting in the right seat on the bus to drive it in the right direction. So, they go to employees for the third time and blame labor for resisting to give again in just a few short months. They blame labor for the bad press and the negative sentiment on wall street along with the fitch rating drop. They refuse to hear that the Chairman of the BOD opened his big mouth about selling assets. And the CEO showing public fear about SW coming into PHL. Blame labor.

Everyone you speak to on the outside feels sorry for the labor groups of this management. Management's answer to that was an Ethics/conduct policy booklet to muzzle the employees. Not the idea to change the managment culture, but instead, to shut the employees up from the abuse on the 'inside".

In 18 months, management asked for:

1. Rj relief - and got it
2. ATSB qualify and guarantee - and got it
3. Pension relief - and got it
4. Concessions of $1.2 Billion from all labor groups - and got it
5. Furlough language to furlough - and got it
6. Bankruptcy for more relief - and got it
7. Wanted all of the employees on medical plan with higher contributions - and got it
8. Productivity enhancements , work rule changes, and benefit reductions - and got it.

ALL OUTSIDE OF SEC. 6 NEGOTIATIONS

You know what its about Cav, don't need me to explain it to you again.

 

[skyflyr69]

If you're in an "unskilled" postition, you'll be gettin' the shaft. Just wait and see.

so whats the problem? all the LCC's don't have "cleaners" so dump the 70,000 dollar cleaners and have the crews clean the plane. LUV, Jetblue , airtran , spirit does it.

 

[skyflyr69]

Cav,
"Competition is the nature of this industry and the nature of this beast. WE are not a rent-car company. The BOD who hired Siegel should have seen that and known that. WE gave management the tools to make it happen, they still have no vision, and they still have not defined what USAirways is and what kind of airline. At present, we are at square one again with the "fate of the carrier in jeopardy".


you guys are in deep doo doo. there is no vision from U mgt. U labor is so in a tizzy you people can't think straight. just look at all the posts on this sight. 36,000!
gimmie a break . don't y'all have better things to do?
big changes are in store so ya better hang on! :huh:

 

[700UW]

so whats the problem? all the LCC's don't have "cleaners" so dump the 70,000 dollar cleaners and have the crews clean the plane. LUV, Jetblue , airtran , spirit does it. 

Southwest has Utility at certain places, and in order for a utility person to make $70,000 they would have to live at work.

Utility salary is $17.13 an hour, there are less then 1,000 left in the system and that is counting heavy maintenance.

$17.13 X 40= $ 685.20 a week before taxes.

$685.20 X 52= 35,630.40 before taxes.

So lets figure it out, in order for a Utility person to earn $70,000 they would have to work 80 hours a week every week.

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way of posting.

And by the way WN's F/A's are willing to strike as they don't get paid to clean planes.

And once again, US flies into 89 mainline stations, there are only Utility on all three shifts at BOS, CLT, DCA, LAX, LGA, PIT, PHL and SFO, hmm eight out of 89 stations, then there are only 10 stations that have Utility only there on third shift.

So that would be 8-three shift stations and 10- third shift only stations. So there are 71 mainline stations where the ramp, F/As or vendors clean the plane.

Do the math and use the FACTS!

 

[PITbull]

And f/as are not going to clean more planes at more stations with less pay and less personnel, with sick pay penalties for getting sick and being disciplined to termination for these illnesses.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Pitbull:

Autofixer said: "Cutting costs is a temporary solution at best. And a huge down side to these actions is, they make UAIR a terrible place to work! What is this, 40 years of progress down the tubes in a few years?...such a proud legacy."

USA320Pilot said: "If a person hates working at US Airways they have the option to resign and go work somewhere else. Furthermore, before the resignation or liquidation, I believe its' better to have a job while searching for another job because you have pay, benefits, and travel privileges during the transition versus unemployment and Cobra."

Pitbull said: "No one hates the company."

USA320Pilot says: Pitbull, with all due respect, I believe Autofixer might hate the company if it's a "terrible place to work."

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[28yearsnojob]

these people have to actually work

 

[PITbull]

A320pilot,

I should not speak for autofixer, he speaks just fine for himself, however, what I read in his post is a sentiment that is shared by many with the exception of you.

U has become a terrible place to work. And that is only because work conditions, benefits andwages have deteriorated very rapidly. That is not the same as saying " hate the company". The company are the employees. So its your statements that are not fair in judgement.

I can "second" autofixers sentiments. If you put out a "poll", you will see what folks think of the working conditions. Its not just about workrule and benefit changes that have grossly effected the emotional and physical security of the employees, but rather, it is the actions against labor on the day to day work environment that has made it a terrible place to work. Its called lack of respect and regard for "human value". And in managment, that was taught by the "newcomers" in labor relations.

 

[700UW]

Come A320Pilot we are all waiting for you to post facts and none of your usual BS.

Lets see,

Your continuing banter about the UCT/ICT that still has not happened.

Your total support of Dave until you pension was taken away, and now you are his #1 fan again.

Your wrong information about the IAM Mechanic and Related Contract.

Your wrong information about United not making its EDITAR and obtaining Exit financing.

Do I need to post more?

Seems your credibility ceases to exist.

 

[700UW]

Bob, the $17.13 is top out pay.

You seem to forget 89 mainline cities domestically, only 18 maintenance stations, 8 are 3 shifts for utility and 10 are third shift only.

You also have utility in heavy maintenance in CLT and PIT that are added into that number.

And on a turnaround flight MANAGEMENT wants utility off the airplane in 10 minutes, no matter if there was one or 200 passengers on board.

 

[700UW]

Bob for instance


You have a 757 on B-5, A320 on B-3 and a 737-300 on B-1, you have two people working three gates.

 

[ClueByFour]

Your group is the only group, absent of an education, will not be able to find the same income out in the "real world" as you like to call it. It is to the pilots disadvantage that they happen to share employment with a company that has different crafts and classes of people that can surely find other work out there at the salaries and wages they are accustomed to.

....

With our group, they've had it. With your group, obviously, they have not.

Give that lady a cigar, because she just nailed it.

This is what it is all about, really. Anything else is spin.