Welcome to My Nightmare-AFA thread 12/8-

[Travelpro72]

While I don't see any true pleasure in doing a transcon turn what is the difference between that or a 12+ hour day up and down the east coast boarding and deplaning over and over? Seems that many are afraid to break away in danger of being screwed. If AFA negotiated the terms correctly it could be done. As mentioned when the time goes out of a base the f/a's stay for the most part. It's time to get moving. I like the idea of a whole crew for operational integrity but other airlines do it. Negotiate terms in BLACK AND WHITE and it CAN be done.

 

[Travelpro72]

I'm hoping someone can answer a question for me...
Why are we stuck in this archaic system that only benefits the top portion of the membership. If these systems work for airlines that are much larger than US, why can't we do something similar?

I'll wait for an answer on this one too. To me it seems it is what it is because that's just the way it's been done. We have a system that has been hacked to death through concessions and pieced together. It's a mess. It's like paving an old road. We have patched pot holes here and there instead of resurfacing the entire road.

 

[hp_fa]

I'm hoping someone can answer a question for me...
Why is it so difficult for the union to negotiate a better system of reserve/scheduling that benefits everyone?

I'll take a stab at it.

1. 75-80% of the union members are holding lines.
2. LEC members are elected.
3. Negotiating Committees are appointed by the MEC, which is elected by the elected LEC members.
4. The company likes having the lowest paid folks on reserve because it is cheaper to pay them and use them "creatively". If higher paid FA's were on reserve the company would be less inclined for such "creative" use of reserves.
5. If the company's "creative" use of reserves makes them quit, great. They get to replace them with even lower paid reserves.

How's that for a start?

 

[N965VJ]

<SNIP>
4. The company likes having the lowest paid folks on reserve because it is cheaper to pay them and use them "creatively". If higher paid FA's were on reserve the company would be less inclined for such "creative" use of reserves.

Except next month there will be RSVs in PHL that capped out in pay six years prior. What’s the percentage of folks still on B-Scale?

 

[Furloughd4now]

CLT AFA has not put out an eline about the reduction in lines, has PHL since that seems to be the hardest hit?

I don't recall seeing anything. AFA 66 seems to be pretty good at that though, but not the East. Anyone?

4. The company likes having the lowest paid folks on reserve because it is cheaper to pay them and use them "creatively". If higher paid FA's were on reserve the company would be less inclined for such "creative" use of reserves.

Having 20 out of 37 reserves get "0" time is not creative, its a waste of money.

Having FAs with 87 seniority sitting rsv. is not lower paid.

There was an MEC meeting in November with a closed session, but no news came from it. There are 2 JNC meetings scheduled for Dec

see link: http://www.afausairways.org/merger/neg_schedule.htm

But I'm sure we all saw the letter entitled "What's Wrong with US Airways" received from AFA. I would like to ask "What's wrong with AFA and why can't we get a Contract?"

 

[songbirdstew]

In the waning ALPA days, it always intrigued me that the AFA hung on to that "me, too" clause. In the last decade of their tenure, ALPA showed no backbone at all that I can recall. The AFA seemed like they were much more of a real union than ALPA. ALPA never saw a concession they didn't like, and AFA consistently got sucked down the same tube with their "me, too" clause.

It always intrigued me that the AFA didn't simply get rid of that nonsense and do their own bargaining. Riding the pilots' coattails might have been an effective strategy in the good old days, but it's time for the AFA to find their own way. I think they will do a much better job on their own.

AFA rode the pilots coat tails with the me too clause right into the crappy duty rigs that ALPA negotiated in their last contract. I totally agree with your statement that we should just get rid of the me-too clause and then negotiate what we want as far as duty time and rigs.We don't need the me-too clause to do that and it HAS dragged us down. Other airlines do not keep front end/back end crews together and do just fine.

As far as getting a new contract goes, this mgmt. will drag it out as long as they can because the current one sucks and they know it. Just an FYI to AFA negotiators and those in management who read this thread.
1) Get a better reserve system that treats us like human beings and not machines.
2) Give us 100% pay for the sick time that we earned...70% is BS. We earned it-- now quit stealing from us.
3) Get rid of weekend touching. That is ridiculous.

Unless these three things are addressed and changed for the better in the contract, I think many will be voting N-O.

Just my opinion.

 

[flywithus]

Why should the AFA negotiate anything for the reserves, it does not affect them. They are alll senior block holders and if they benefit anything that might benefit the reserves, it might take away from what they have. I am sure C.A. stays up late at night in SAN worrying about such things as she gets 100 hours of intl. pay.

If the company really wanted to do something to show the f/a's that they care, they would sign a side letter and go back to the old seniority reserve system. Give up the passing, etc. but at least have it done in seniority order. Would it really cost that much and would make a lot of people happy.

But all of us need to tell AFA to start negotiating absent a pilot agreement and work on getting a contract for the Flight Attendants. We will never get one as long as AFA drags it's tail and waits for the pilots to do something. Break away from them and get our own contract.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

AFA is continuing to negotiate with the company. I haven't seen anything written by AFA that says they are stalling our negotiations pending the pilots. Lets place blame where it belongs, the company. They could of settled this single agreement a year ago if they wanted too. It doesn't matter how hard "our" AFA negotiators work, if Council 66 isn't on board and neither is the company there is nothing that "our" team can do. We have a legally binding contract with the company until 12/31/11.

 

[ebwgs]

"I'm not saying all your flying is going to PHX but some of it is."

I don't know maybe I missed something, or maybe there's something I'm not comprehending. Is there not still a fence dividing West metal and US metal? Obviously a lot of Philly time has left the base. But, reading what this braggart is saying one would think that PHX has gotten the lion's share of the Philly flying. They may or may not have gotten some of it I don't know, but it's gone somewhere. And are there not 767s being taken out of the system for maintenance? Again, unless I overslept in that cave I've been living in US West doesn't fly 767s. As far as the me-too clause, the dumbest thing we could ever do is give up the me-too clause. This braggart may relish flying east-west coast turns, but I for one would rather not put my body through that madness. I will grant that there are provisions in our contract that leave a lot to be desired. September 11th, force manure....excuse me force majeure and the Chapter 11s had a lot to do with the degrading of our contract, but I'd much rather have the more experienced east negotiating my next contract than the relative union neophytes out west who come off as management lapdogs. Parity Plus One sounds awfully good right now!

"It's not because Doug likes us better."

It's not about Doug liking anybody better than anyone around here who wears a uniform. Doug doesn't work for the uniforms he works for the suits and pantsuits in the boardroom. You folks out west need to get off of this Doug is our Doug foolishness and see it for what it is. I'm reminded of the old Spinners song "Love Don't Love Nobody." The hook goes "It takes a fool to learn that love don't love nobody, it takes a fool to learn that love don't love no one. It's takes a fool." Well it takes a fool--for labor to think--to learn that Doug don't love nobody, it takes a fool to learn that Doug don't love no one. It takes a fool.

On a different note it's a great song! Takes me back.

 

[Furloughd4now]

FWIW .. VPLOAs are offered for February. All East except DCA. They do not post numbers of actually how many are needed.

January VPLOAs went very junior to APR '01 for PHL. LGA was only awarded 4 that was senior. Many senior people applied for it and it was rejected. Now how does this happen? Please don't tell me because of staffing. If you read my earlier post you will see that 21 out of 37 rsvs have 0 hours to date. One lucky rsv has 20! We do not need that many on rsv here right now and there are many people (in LGA) that want a VPLOA but can't get it.

I can understand them not wanting us to break guarantee, but I may wind up with maybe, just maybe, 25 hours for the month.

In the meantime, we are on-call 24/hrs 6 days in a row. Can't pick-up because of 24/7 and the other "restrictions" placed on Rsvs.

 

[ggiby]

Only way things are going to change is with a new contract which the FA group could vote on. Only problem is your group will not deviate from the "me to clause". So until the pilot group gets its act together and votes in a unified contract do not expect any changes for quite awhile.

So how do you think changing the me too clause will help the reserves????

I only want real comments.... the me too clause only affects duty rigs... on duty time etc...

has nothing to do with seniority...

so you are delusional...

me too helps us.... when is the last time you worked a 17 hour day with a 6 hour over nite???

it could happen w/o the me too clause

 

[sharonstoneseat]

So how do you think changing the me too clause will help the reserves????

I only want real comments.... the me too clause only affects duty rigs... on duty time etc...

has nothing to do with seniority...

so you are delusional...

me too helps us.... when is the last time you worked a 17 hour day with a 6 hour over nite???

it could happen w/o the me too clause

Here is the West's relationship between seniority and the No Me Too Clause.

The top (Senior) 10% of the flight attendants on the West benefit from having No Me Too Clause. Their seniority allows them to bid and hold 4 to 8 of these one day high credit 9-10 hour trips in a month, the result is having as much as 22 days off in a month with 80 hours credit. It is one sweet deal.

You are correct, the better duty rigs associated with a Me Too clause benefits the membership overall.

 

[flywithus]

So how do you think changing the me too clause will help the reserves????

I only want real comments.... the me too clause only affects duty rigs... on duty time etc...

has nothing to do with seniority...

so you are delusional...

me too helps us.... when is the last time you worked a 17 hour day with a 6 hour over nite???

it could happen w/o the me too clause

Eliminating the Me too clause would allow for more flight attendant lines. The lines would not be tied to the pilot lines so when they pull pilot lines out of base, the f/a lines would not be affected. Also, f/a lines could be built say at 80 hours, with mixed flying thus creating more lines. Overnights and legalities could be negotiated into the f/a agreement. In other words, get like most other airlines. Again, our current negotiating committee made up of senior f/a's could care less about things like this because it effects the more junior f/a's and not themselves.

Call your union, tell them you are fed up with the pace of negotiations and stop dragging their feet waiting for the pilot mess to cleaned up and negotiated. We deserve something NOW!

 

[ggiby]

Here is the West's relationship between seniority and the No Me Too Clause.

The top (Senior) 10% of the flight attendants on the West benefit from having No Me Too Clause. Their seniority allows them to bid and hold 4 to 8 of these one day high credit 9-10 hour trips in a month, the result is having as much as 22 days off in a month with 80 hours credit. It is one sweet deal.

You are correct, the better duty rigs associated with a Me Too clause benefits the membership overall.

That has nothing to do with the me-2

you must not know that the me 2 means
reserves... are not included but they do get five hours a day... thanks to the me too

U people on the west have a union that keeps you miss insformed

 

[ggiby]

That has nothing to do with the me-2

you must not know that the me 2 means
reserves... are not included but they do get five hours a day... thanks to the me too

U people on the west have a union that keeps you miss insformed

have you ever worked a 15 hour day or more???

w/ out the me 2 clause I dont have to work more than 14 hours... w/o the
me too I have to go to 16 hours....

U people are miss informed.... and have know clue as your are a young airline.... and are
growing.... U know not what you are talking about...

and btw... how long have you been part of AFA...
not know where as long as us....

sorry IMOH