AFA Negotiations

[EMBFA]

UsAirways is a low cost carrier. Worry less about glassware and more about your lack of a contract. You work for AWA in US drag. It would have been easier if they had changed the name. They didn't. Tempe isn't worried about glassware, you shouldn't either.

Okay, cutesie as that is, flight attendants need to stop saying that, "US Airways is a low cost carrier." US Airways is NOT a low cost carrier, by any measurement.

US Airways has the highest operating costs in the industry. Highest. Not lowest. The highest.

No true network carrier with international service and regional service can truly claim to be a low cost carrier, as these services simply are not low cost to operate. On top of that, US Airways is the poster boy for uneccesarily high costs both pre and post merger. Two essentially unmerged 'mainline' airlines, 9 or 10 'express' carriers, most under ridiculous guaranteed profit, cost-plus contracts, some of the most well compensated (and most useless) management... two basically unrelated route networks, each with redundant and overlapping hubs, with the shortest overall stage lengths in the industry. None of this is "LCC", which like "business casual", is a dated buzzword Doogie and co have adopted as excuses for terrible service, and more importantly, industry bottom wages.

The only thing low cost around here is the contracts we work under, and worse, the fact that we've allowed the company unlimited options to keep us down- they have two mainlines to work against each other for years, and we have allowed contract regional carriers to fly mainline sized airplanes. Every time you claim "LCC" you are only condoning your own terrible pay and adding to an appalling brand. Our product is priced similar to other network carriers, but our product is sub-par to most real LCCs. Calling US Airways an LCC is offensive to our customers and employees.

 

[Travelpro72]

Now THAT is one of the best posts I have read on here in a long while. VERY to the point and right on the money. Hell, that's worth printing and handing to a coworker the next time I hear them say that. Hearing a flight attendant say that to a customer on the plane sets me on fire. How the hell do you know that they didn't just buy a ticket to BOS for $700.00 or a ticket to MIA for $2,000.00?

 

[flybynite]

Speaking of FA contracts....there is a rumor running around on the flyertalk board that the reason East aircraft don't have glassware is because the FAs(East) are contractually allowed to not use them. Any one care to elaborate(or put the rumor to rest)?

Oh, that's just silly. US Airways had glassware/china & cutlery prior to 911 and then it was put in storage as we were slashing expenses...AW hauled our glassware and china to PHX and have been using it on the west fleet every since the merger.

They still haven't put the glassware back on the east fleet for unknown reasons. The POWERS THAT BE act like a bunch of nit wits on this issue.

 

[US1YFARE]

You work for AWA in US drag.

And let me tell you, she is UGLY.

 

[galley princess]

Okay, cutesie as that is, flight attendants need to stop saying that, "US Airways is a low cost carrier." US Airways is NOT a low cost carrier, by any measurement.

US Airways has the highest operating costs in the industry. Highest. Not lowest. The highest.

No true network carrier with international service and regional service can truly claim to be a low cost carrier, as these services simply are not low cost to operate. On top of that, US Airways is the poster boy for uneccesarily high costs both pre and post merger. Two essentially unmerged 'mainline' airlines, 9 or 10 'express' carriers, most under ridiculous guaranteed profit, cost-plus contracts, some of the most well compensated (and most useless) management... two basically unrelated route networks, each with redundant and overlapping hubs, with the shortest overall stage lengths in the industry. None of this is "LCC", which like "business casual", is a dated buzzword Doogie and co have adopted as excuses for terrible service, and more importantly, industry bottom wages.

The only thing low cost around here is the contracts we work under, and worse, the fact that we've allowed the company unlimited options to keep us down- they have two mainlines to work against each other for years, and we have allowed contract regional carriers to fly mainline sized airplanes. Every time you claim "LCC" you are only condoning your own terrible pay and adding to an appalling brand. Our product is priced similar to other network carriers, but our product is sub-par to most real LCCs. Calling US Airways an LCC is offensive to our customers and employees.

Low Cost Carrier is not my invention. It is the explanation given to employees of Usairways for what has become of our product. It would be nice if it were all a bad dream, but the reality is US isn't, if it ever was a world class airline anymore. My own word for it would be Economy Air or Greyhound in the air, but they didn't ask me. Perhaps your customers do not expostulate their displeasure with the product to you, but they do to me. Rather than be unprofessional and roll my eyes, mutter something about "you get what you pay for" or the one that I love "yeah well I don't have a pension", I take refuge in the simplistic explanation provided by Tempe. Is it true? Who knows? Who cares? This thread was about negotiations. My needlessly terse addition was 1/2 frustration coming back from an international where the video didn't work, duct tape decor prevailed. . you get the picture, and 1/2 bemusement with flight attendants and what they're concerned about.

I cringe at the barrel cup too, but I am in the process of desensitizing myself to Tempe's shenanigans. Why? Because the evidence so far is in their corner. US is profitable. People click on the cheapest ticket regardless of who flys it. The travelling public wouldn't care if we were replaced by monkeys if the ticket price was low enough. Accept that and the degradation of the product starts to make sense.

Do I hope Art is right and the lack of proper service will fell them in the end? Anymore, I don't think it matters. UsAirways is no longer what it was. The best we can hope is to regain our earning power and live lives far away from it. My point, and I apologize for the terse tone, was that we have other things to worry about, a employee morale in the sewer, abysmal pay and working conditions, the exacerbating misery of the reserves and the list goes on. Let Tempe worry about the bloody cup, the lack of closets, the abysmal service. Control what you can control. Leave what you can't.

Some flight attendants are moving on, recultivating foregone careers, starting small businesses, going back to school. All of these are good things, because in the end, people with less to lose will go to the wall. We have three years until 2011, cultivate your garden, so that you're ready for that wall.

 

[beachboy]

"Who knows or who cares?" gallyprincess, you should that's who. Or maybe you have just unplugged to the point that you just accept the doo doo for what it is. I think that sums up your line of thinking. Right or wrong, it's a mess. I unplugged but accept this place for the lame disrespect for passengers and employees they dish out daily? Never

 

[galley princess]

"UsAirways is a low cost carrier" is disrespectful to employees and customers? Sorry, I don't agree. I am just using their verbiage for an explanation. What else do you suggest? Anything I say will be disparaging to the company, so I don't say anything or that's it. As for unplugging, from Tempe, yes. From myself, no. If anything I am trying to be kinder. But again, I am all about what I can control, not what I can't.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

"UsAirways is a low cost carrier" is disrespectful to employees and customers? Sorry, I don't agree. I am just using their verbiage for an explanation. What else do you suggest? Anything I say will be disparaging to the company, so I don't say anything or that's it. As for unplugging, from Tempe, yes. From myself, no. If anything I am trying to be kinder. But again, I am all about what I can control, not what I can't.

I'm with you.

 

[EMBFA]

"UsAirways is a low cost carrier" is disrespectful to employees and customers? Sorry, I don't agree. I am just using their verbiage for an explanation. What else do you suggest? Anything I say will be disparaging to the company, so I don't say anything or that's it. As for unplugging, from Tempe, yes. From myself, no. If anything I am trying to be kinder. But again, I am all about what I can control, not what I can't.

I didn't realize we were talking about what you should say to a customer... are you asking for suggestions? Hopefully you'll come up with something that doesn't attempt to justify the horrible product you've been asked to represent. It's possible to do this without putting down your employer, and maintaining your own dignity and standards if you use your customer service skills.

Like you said, you can control certain things such as your demeanor and what you say. I do not know what my customers have paid for our product, nor do I believe they care what our 'costs' are. It's a terrible excuse for poor quality, and I think it's a lazy, offensive thing to say to a client. As an employee, I find it extremely insulting since the only 'low cost' item is the artificially low labor costs currently enjoyed by the company.

You don't have to agree with me.

Now... again...

US Airways has the HIGHEST costs in the industry.

Can you please explain to us how it is a low cost carrier?

How? To whom?

 

[WCT]

I didn't realize we were talking about what you should say to a customer... are you asking for suggestions? Hopefully you'll come up with something that doesn't attempt to justify the horrible product you've been asked to represent. It's possible to do this without putting down your employer, and maintaining your own dignity and standards if you use your customer service skills.

Like you said, you can control certain things such as your demeanor and what you say. I do not know what my customers have paid for our product, nor do I believe they care what our 'costs' are. It's a terrible excuse for poor quality, and I think it's a lazy, offensive thing to say to a client. As an employee, I find it extremely insulting since the only 'low cost' item is the artificially low labor costs currently enjoyed by the company.

You don't have to agree with me.

Now... again...

US Airways has the HIGHEST costs in the industry.

Can you please explain to us how it is a low cost carrier?

How? To whom?

High cost of cheap, as Piney says. It's funny to see all the concerns raised on this board we have been talking about for years at HP. I refuse to write up another report or complain as it will always go on deaf ears??!! Nothing has changed and will, until this mgmt is put to the pastures!! This so called "LCC" business model doesn't work, and never will. Until the pink papers are filed, expect more of the same, I guess until the 3rd bk, heaven forbid?! I always hoped things would get better, but they won't. As for the pax's, they are my bread and butter, and I will always give them the best of my abilities!
Our contract, pay, work rules out west are and have been the biggest joke of the industry all these years.
Just put this dump out for sale. Sorry to be so negative, but they could give a SH!T!!!

 

[galley princess]

Well EMBFA, we aren't going to agree on this. I believe that LCC is more about the cost to the customer rather than US's cost, if I read the marketing right. Whether or not it truly is will be dependent on the market.

Gently saying "US is a low cost carrier" to an unsatisfied customer is not rude. It is informative. They know what they paid, and they can make the decision. Would I fly US to Europe? Depends on how much I hate to connect. For our service? No. But do I want to spend 3 hours in Frankfurt for a bit more comfort crossing the pond? That's individual. Whether or not the customer feels that their ticket is low cost or not is also individual. I have had people say "but these tickets cost $800!" For going to Europe. A conversation on how I paid more than that in the 1970's will not be useful or helpful to this customer. They know what they want to pay and that is : Nothing. So I don't have those conversations.

The thread is about negotiations. I think that it is too bad that some flight attendants are more worried about the service that US provides--read US--not us personally--this is not my living room, than their contract.

As for the actual costs of running US, sorry, not my problem. My problem is an abysmal pay rate and wretched working conditions. I will retire from this conversation now. I agree to disagree!

 

[Pacemaker]

Seat Mile Costs, cents per ASM, 3rd Quarter 2007
Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics

1 US Airways 15.8
2 Delta 14.0
3 Northwest 13.6
4 Continental 13.5
5 United 13.3
7 Alaska 12.0

 

[Twicebaked]

It is IMO extremely rude to say to a customer "Well we're a LCC now"! How do you as a F/A know what I paid for that ticket? I'll tell you this for darn sure that if you ever said it to me and it turned out I paid $1275.00 PHL-BVT it would result in my very first complaint against a specific person in 7 years as a US1.

With all due respect (maybe?) Piney, Do you really think we give a rats a$$ if you complain? NO!!!

What do you think is going to happen to us? We get a letter asking to explain the situation and we say "Do not recall"!

We can have hundreds of complaint letters and NOTHING will happen. But, if it makes you feel better......

We get beat up by the company on a daily basis....you writing a letter means absolutely nothing to us!!!!