We all need to wake up

[b737fo]

So whats the price of their sacrifice?

Unfortunately for a labor group there is no price or reward for sacrifice other than keeping a job somewhere in the future. We've seen this throughout this and other downturns in the aviation industry. I am still waiting for snap backs to pre 2001 labor contracts since everyone has made a sacrifice to help this industry survive. The price of sacrifice in an ideal world would be collected from management (not another labor group) but that is just ice cream and puppy dog dreams.

 

[traderjake]

The only entitled people I see here are the west pilots who think their 7 years is worth 20. That''s f##### up.

What is worth more, a job or ten years of service and no job?

The East pilots refuse the accept the fundamental reality that actually having a job is worth more than the promise of a job.

They see no windfall in making the the first East pilot to get furloughed before the merger 1000 numbers away from furlough after the merger.

 

[Mr Furlough]

2007-18= 1989. If you were an 89/90 hire weren't you furloughed twice? Once from (approximately) 92-98 and once from (approximately) 03-07? Doesn't that give you 6 - 8 years "on property" with the company, not the 18 you claim?

CaptainZitface,

What the heck is this supposed to mean? Fact is, you haven't done your homework. And then you rush to drag out your "on the property" crap. I was hired in '89. I possess 4 years, 22 days of total furlough time.

When were you hired? How much of your time is on furlough? And what the heck does that have to do with anything?

Unless you're simply attempting to create a mechanism to steal someone else's earned seniority.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Do any of the East pilots really believe this? Hundreds of working AWA pilots should be thrown out of their jobs while hundreds of furloughed US pilots take their place?

There are certainly a number of judgment calls in the Nic Award. Some of them could go a number of ways and still meet the merger guidelines. But I don't see how DOH could ever meet the merger guidelines.

I agree with this. But then the flip side is the pilots hired after 9/11 moving nearly two decades up that DOH list (or is it more like 15 years). Reason is somewhere in the middle.

 

[lowfareair]

you are as pathetic as your leader (Jerry)!! you want to re-invent the wheel because your situation sucks...guess what? life sucks!! you chose to work for a third class, regional carrier who has been barely surviving for over 15 years. you CHOSE to work for this carrier, fully recognizing that mergers are a reality of this industry and that the company buying your crappy carrier would be smaller than you!! yes, you CHOSE that reality for yourself!!
now you whine and cry...reinventing the wheel...relative this, relative that.
shut up!! sorry for your luck!! tough toenails!!
you CHOSE your situation!!! and, your crap management team (that we westies fortunately didn't inherit) was as pathetic as you!!

See. Now you're a westie. And with only a couple changes here and there to boot! Isn't it fun?!

 

[flyboeing737]

BINDING ARBITRATION!! GAME OVER BOYS

 

[BottomFeeder]

BINDING ARBITRATION!! GAME OVER BOYS

OK little boy, take your section 6 and go back to your sand box.

 

[Cactus737]

CaptainZitface,

What the heck is this supposed to mean? Fact is, you haven't done your homework. And then you rush to drag out your "on the property" crap. I was hired in '89. I possess 4 years, 22 days of total furlough time.

When were you hired? How much of your time is on furlough? And what the heck does that have to do with anything?

Unless you're simply attempting to create a mechanism to steal someone else's earned seniority.

That's nice and all - but you're still JUNIOR. You were JUNIOR before Nicolau and you're still JUNIOR after Nicolau. The fact that you have 18 years and are still JUNIOR is a problem that you brought to the merger, and is not something that any AWA pilot should have to pay for.

I realize that between an obscene sense of entitlement and a completely dishonest MEC, you haven't had a fighting chance at understanding reality. But when you realize that your bellyaching doesn't get you anythere, you might rethink your position.

 

[A320 Driver]

That's nice and all - but you're still JUNIOR. You were JUNIOR before Nicolau and you're still JUNIOR after Nicolau. The fact that you have 18 years and are still JUNIOR is a problem that you brought to the merger, and is not something that any AWA pilot should have to pay for.

I realize that between an obscene sense of entitlement and a completely dishonest MEC, you haven't had a fighting chance at understanding reality. But when you realize that your bellyaching doesn't get you anythere, you might rethink your position.

I'm not sure why the Nicolau award is still being debated here. It's dead...period. It requires a joint contract to implement. East will NEVER vote yes. Negotiate till the cows come home. You still get a NO vote from the East.

Someone better figure out what plan B is because plan A is a non-starter.

There is nothing to rethink.

A320 Driver B)

 

[ussnark]

The East pilots refuse the accept the fundamental reality that actually having a job is worth more than the promise of a job.

When you are furloughed, you are guaranteed a job over everyone else, in seniority order and not just promised a job. It is a federal law, not a contractual thingy.

Perhaps that is why your thinking is so muddled. It follows from your lack of precision in verbiage.

Perhaps when you get a few years under your belt you will understand, even to being a vocal proponent of such. Until then, you are basically wet behind the ears. Sure, you can demonstrate the minimum requirements to pass a check, but, as you will certainly find out, that is the least of what many of us call, experience.

 

[700UW]

What are you smoking?

There is no federal law protecting your seniority when you get laid off. It is contractual if you are unionized and contained in your CBA, just like arbitration takes precedent over what is in your CBA. If non-union you are SOL.

Show the board what federal law.

 

[b737fo]

I'm not sure why the Nicolau award is still being debated here. It's dead...period. It requires a joint contract to implement. East will NEVER vote yes. Negotiate till the cows come home. You still get a NO vote from the East.

Someone better figure out what plan B is because plan A is a non-starter.

There is nothing to rethink.

A320 Driver B)

As far as the pilots on both sides, I don't think there needs to be a plan B. It can just be status quo as far as I am concerned. If only management will follow along with that. Time will tell.

 

[Cactus737]

Someone better figure out what plan B is because plan A is a non-starter.

That speaks volumes about your "vote no on a joint contract" stragegy, because you obviously haven't given it any thought.

Read the transition agreement; if you think that the East will grow as a separate op while West remains stagnant, you're kidding yourself. Even if that did happen, East would be voting NO to 30%-40% pay raises so that maybe 100 FO's can upgrade to captain.

So while plan B may keep the Nicolau Award from being implemented, at the end of the day all East pilots will end up with FAR LESS under Plan B.

Unfortunately, AWA pilots will benefit less under Plan B too, but won't lose nearly as bad as the East pilots will. Although AWA has section 6 and can help the company divert block hours away from the dysfunctional East operation, there is more leverage and more to gain in a joint agreement.

 

[Mr Furlough]

But when you realize that your bellyaching doesn't get you anythere, you might rethink your position.

Never!!!!

 

[Mr Furlough]

That speaks volumes about your "vote no on a joint contract" stragegy, because you obviously haven't given it any thought.

Read the transition agreement; if you think that the East will grow as a separate op while West remains stagnant, you're kidding yourself. Even if that did happen, East would be voting NO to 30%-40% pay raises so that maybe 100 FO's can upgrade to captain.

So while plan B may keep the Nicolau Award from being implemented, at the end of the day all East pilots will end up with FAR LESS under Plan B.

Unfortunately, AWA pilots will benefit less under Plan B too, but won't lose nearly as bad as the East pilots will. Although AWA has section 6 and can help the company divert block hours away from the dysfunctional East operation, there is more leverage and more to gain in a joint agreement.

We're not looking to hurt the west. We are looking for a fair seniority agreement. Without it, no deal at all: whatever the price.

I understand that you would have benefited from the Nicolau award. But you wont. I understand that you now would like to get a pay raise to boot. Without a palatable seniority integration, I doubt you'll get one.

It's like this: I'm in a lifeboat with my family. You swim along and grab the side of the boat. I beat your knuckles bloody to save my family.

It's not about getting what we might get. It's about our careers. Your position offers a job, and not a good one at that. Being junior to thousands of less tenured pilots to the point of eliminating upgrade possibilities for the life of our careers is a deal breaker.

If you can't get your arms around that, at least give up on the notion that we will facilitate a pay raise for you. Obviously, you haven't "given it any thought". As it's not all about you.