Vote no demonstration in Tulsa

[TWU informer]

Wrong, they already got the money from those groups that gave it up. Read the trust agreement, if we volunteer to leave the plan, which is what a YES vote is, then they get to keep the money and use it to pay their Benefit obligations, so while technically they cant buy new airplanes with it they do get the benefit of it. Yes we will get back what came out of our paychecks, plus investment experience, but if we vote YES we are agreeing to opt out and turn the funds over to the 1114 process. I agree with OldTimer and Tex Mex. We wont see the money and AA will use it as a way to look good as far as how they treated retirees at our expense. The money will go into a VEBA run by the Union till it runs out. So people like Ed Koziatek, Tim Gillespie and others, some of whom retired over a decade ago, who paid very little into the plan and recieved many, many times what they did pay into it, will continue to get coverage while those of us who paid into it for decades will see our company matches used to continue to provide them a benefit we will never see.

If you can get us this in writing, I can get us 200 No Votes before the deadline to end voting arrives.

 

[Tex-Mech]

If you can get us this in writing, I can get us 200 No Votes before the deadline to end voting arrives.

Page 272 of the new agreement, also known as article 41n-9.

Employer contributions and investment earnings attributable thereto in the Retiree Prefunded Benefits Program Account will be used for the exclusive benefit of participating employees and retirees in the event of Trust termination. That includes the use of the assets for the purpose of continuing retiree health coverage under an alternative program as may be agreed to by the parties

Page 275, we are voluntarily agreeing to put the money into the 1114 process. This removes any oversight of the deal that will go down outside of negotiations.

Like I said, expect another LTD style plan to be offered by the union, and your employer match to be thrown into a general TWU plan.

 

[Overspeed]

That shows what a fool you are if the Judge says they can abrogate the contract the company is free to impose LBO2 if they choose so for you to set here and say that is compelling shows your ignorance of the issue the company can impose the term sheet or LBO1 or LBO2 if the judge says ok.So if they say we do not want to good then don't you cannot be that thick to buy that crap.

So you are counting on AA to give you the same thing you want to vote down? If you were them you would allow yourself as much room as possible to negotiate up. That means impose 3/22 and leave the union to work hard to bring the pay up.

Why if so one decides to vote yes they are narrow minded and cowards and if a person says they will vote no the are smart and tough? Do you understand that the APA, APFA, and TWU experts all expect if their groups vote no that AA will impose their initial ask? So the experienced and educated professional economists, attorney's and industry experts are all wrong and the our A&P mechanic Presidents are smarter than them? Okay.

 

[TWU informer]

So you are counting on AA to give you the same thing you want to vote down? If you were them you would allow yourself as much room as possible to negotiate up. That means impose 3/22 and leave the union to work hard to bring the pay up.

Why if so one decides to vote yes they are narrow minded and cowards and if a person says they will vote no the are smart and tough? Do you understand that the APA, APFA, and TWU experts all expect if their groups vote no that AA will impose their initial ask? So the experienced and educated professional economists, attorney's and industry experts are all wrong and the our A&P mechanic Presidents are smarter than them? Okay.

Well if it is true that I only receive the company match in the prefund account by voting NO, then a NO has more value to me than a YES does, by thousands of dollars. I am not going to retire, I am not going to get laid-off, and the Thousands in the company match is better for me than the 3% raise by far.

Can you dispute what they are saying will happen to the company match if this is ratified?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

So you are counting on AA to give you the same thing you want to vote down? If you were them you would allow yourself as much room as possible to negotiate up. That means impose 3/22 and leave the union to work hard to bring the pay up.

Why if so one decides to vote yes they are narrow minded and cowards and if a person says they will vote no the are smart and tough? Do you understand that the APA, APFA, and TWU experts all expect if their groups vote no that AA will impose their initial ask? So the experienced and educated professional economists, attorney's and industry experts are all wrong and the our A&P mechanic Presidents are smarter than them? Okay.

Hey speedie, Do YOU understand that the twu experts said to vote yes on the last failed t/a because a vote no would mean doom and gloom? But here we have LBO2.0 and again the twu PAID experts are saying vote yes because a vote no would mean doom and gloom.

I'll go with my elected A&P Mechanic presidents since their pay and benefits are directly tied to mine. Why should I believe the twu paid, appointed, unaccountable blow hard international officers when they will not live under this t/a if it is passed?

You are foolish to vote yes. I'll throw in narrow minded and cowardly since you agree with the description of what voting yes requires.

VOTE NO!

 

[Overspeed]

No you heard HSS or Overspin say that I said that.


Lets give you a little backround on that lie.

From the time I came into negotiations in 2009 Don and his puppets kept throwing out the threat that we needed to give the company what they wanted or the company would file for BK, I said that the potential savings they could expect from M&R would not be enough to make it worth the trip since we were already below market rates. I said that their decision as far as BK revolves more around the Pilots than mechanics and that if they filed because of the pilots that the fact that we gave concessions, again would not matter, they would still come back for more. That has been proven to be true. So while it doesnt matter to the court it should matter to us. I did say that BK was a scam, and it is, as shown when a company can file with $4 billion in the bank and not be thrown out. We still do not know if the Judge will abrogate and the company is hoping we will never find out.

Genuis, fortune teller? Never claimed to be either, but it doesnt take either to look at this deal and know that it will keep us at the bottom of the industry for another six years. It doesnt take either to see that this is a bad deal and BK or not we dont have to accept it.

Bob calling BK a scare tactic is well known on this board. You did say it verbally as well while you were on your roadshows with Gukelberger, JR, and Pike better known as your puppets.

If Don discussing BK was a threat then it really wasn't since it did happen. That means he made an educated conclusion and shared that information with you. You chose to dismiss it as a threat. Bob that seems to be your M.O. that you fail to understand the grave circumstances we are in and you continue to try to lead us down a path to further destruction while you blame the TWU, TUL, other people who have faced the facts and advise voting yes, the NMB, the TWU hired experts, and AA.

How are the egg rolls in China Bob?

 

[Overspeed]

Hey speedie, Do YOU understand that the twu experts said to vote yes on the last failed t/a because a vote no would mean doom and gloom? But here we have LBO2.0 and again the twu PAID experts are saying vote yes because a vote no would mean doom and gloom.

I'll go with my elected A&P Mechanic presidents since their pay and benefits are directly tied to mine. Why should I believe the twu paid, appointed, unaccountable blow hard international officers when they will not live under this t/a if it is passed?

You are foolish to vote yes. I'll throw in narrow minded and cowardly since you agree with the description of what voting yes requires.

VOTE NO!

Ken, I can accept your cheesy labels but at least I did not betray the reputation of Charles Taylor by accepting over $3,500 from AA and the ARSA who are trying to destroy the craft he started. You also accepted favors from Int'l reps to move around the system. Ken you are a master of deception, you claim to be so virtuous and all knowing yet you are a hypocrite. Your actions go against all your accountability claims and you accept support from people who are trying to kill our trade.

We have better deal because of the BK process, not because we voted anything down and AA felt compelled to give us anything more. The APA has the most leverage and since they got a improved deal and a reduced ask AA was obligated to provide the same reduction in our ask. That's it. But test the waters tough guy, vote no. The APA and APFA are recommending yes vote because their experts agree that abrogation will be a disaster for the membership.

 

[TWU informer]

The APA and APFA are recommending yes vote because their experts agree that abrogation will be a disaster for the membership.

What happens to the company match prefund if this is ratified?
Tell us all what happens to those Thousands of Dollars?

Can you stop with the personal attacks and answer the question?

 

[odie01]

Hey, I waved, I shouted, I pointed to the facts of what Bankruptcy has in store for us and your hero's never came accross the street to challenge me on my decision to VOTE YES. Informer and pittbull both at one time tried to give a stare down but lacked the nerve to face their destiny expressed by the informed....cowards were they, and the clan of idiots who follow them 😉

Oh yeah, VOTE YES..... 😉

I thought that was you Chris, standing next to Jane Fonda!

 

[Captain Reality]

You guys can vote no all you want to,but unless you are willing to defy the judge,and strike AA. Voting yes is the only option.

 

[enough already]

Ken, I can accept your cheesy labels but at least I did not betray the reputation of Charles Taylor by accepting over $3,500 from AA and the ARSA who are trying to destroy the craft he started. You also accepted favors from Int'l reps to move around the system. Ken you are a master of deception, you claim to be so virtuous and all knowing yet you are a hypocrite. Your actions go against all your accountability claims and you accept support from people who are trying to kill our trade.

We have better deal because of the BK process, not because we voted anything down and AA felt compelled to give us anything more. The APA has the most leverage and since they got a improved deal and a reduced ask AA was obligated to provide the same reduction in our ask. That's it. But test the waters tough guy, vote no. The APA and APFA are recommending yes vote because their experts agree that abrogation will be a disaster for the membership.

ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA ARSA
Is that enough?

 

[TWU informer]

So now we can add Thousands in Prefunding Cash to the Vote Yes Losses.

Now it looks like

Volunteer to give up...

Defined Pension
Retirement Medical Plan
Company Match Cash
Job Security
Week of Vacation
7 Day Coverage
No More PV days
Increased Medical Premiums and CoPays
Work Rules that are undetermined
Transfers and Crew Chief at company selection
Thousands of Jobs Loss
35% Outsourcing of our work

NOT ONLY NO
BUT HELL NO!!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

You guys can vote no all you want to,but unless you are willing to defy the judge,and strike AA. Voting yes is the only option.

So Captain "not of our" Reality, it is obvious with your "you guys" talk that you are not going to be affected by this offer. So why do you care what we do?

 

[Realityck]

Owens prediction: Wrong, they already got the money from those groups that gave it up. Read the trust agreement, if we volunteer to leave the plan, which is what a YES vote is, then they get to keep the money and use it to pay their Benefit obligations, so while technically they cant buy new airplanes with it they do get the benefit of it. Yes we will get back what came out of our paychecks, plus investment experience, but if we vote YES we are agreeing to opt out and turn the funds over to the 1114 process. I agree with OldTimer and Tex Mex. We wont see the money and AA will use it as a way to look good as far as how they treated retirees at our expense. The money will go into a VEBA run by the Union till it runs out. So people like Ed Koziatek, Tim Gillespie and others, some of whom retired over a decade ago, who paid very little into the plan and recieved many, many times what they did pay into it, will continue to get coverage while those of us who paid into it for decades will see our company matches used to continue to provide them a benefit we will never see.

By voting YES we are agreeing to terminate the plan so the Bankruptcy Protection clauses do not apply, we agreed to it. and in the new agreement we allow the company to have a say in how the matching funds are used, read the LBOII. They could give us the Match back, did the tech Services guys get both back? Did Fleet? I doubt they intend on giving it back to us if we vote YES. Why do you think they are holding back on that? If we vote NO and the company unilaterally terminates the plan through its BK filing we determine what we do with our monies.



What the hell are you AMFA clowns talking about?


ATTACHMENT 41.1 PREFUNDING DOS

Mr. Robert F. Gless Deputy Director - ATD AA System Coordinator Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO 1791 Hurstview Drive Hurst, TX 76054

“Employee and Company Prefunding Contributions”

Dear Robert,

During the restructuring agreement negotiations, the parties agreed that upon implementation of the changes to the Retiree medical plan program an active employee who currently prefunds for retiree medical will be refunded the employee’s prefunding account (which reflects investment experience), excluding employees who have already received employee prefunding refunds.

In addition, the parties agreed that contingent on the successful resolution of the Section 1114 process, as soon as practicable after termination of the Trust Agreement for the Group Life and Health Benefits Plan for Employees of Participating AMR Corporation Subsidiaries (Union Employees), the Company prefunding contributions for each participating active employee, and investment earnings attributable thereto, will be distributed to the employee (subject to applicable tax withholdings and/or excise tax), excluding employees who have already received refunds of their employee prefunding accounts. The refund will be made to the employee no later than 120 days following DOS.

If this letter accurately reflects the agreement of the parties, please indicate by signing below.

Sincerely, {Original Signed on File}
________________________ James B. Weel Managing Director Employee Relations American Airlines,

Inc.
Agreed to: {Original Signed on File}
________________________ Robert F. Gless Deputy Director Air Transport Division Transport Workers Union of American, AFL-CIO








275

 

[1AA]

You guys can vote no all you want to,but unless you are willing to defy the judge,and strike AA. Voting yes is the only option.

That is exactly in the direction we are heading. One battle at a time wins the war.
The Yes voters are holding up the White flag. This is confusing the enemy and the allies.