US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[Hawkhunter]

Gee then who flew the planes that US flew during the IAM strike in 92?

Saw many pilots cross the picket lines and even saw plenty of pilots doing IAM covered work during the 30 day cooling off period.

You have been crying about that for years. Get a life, it was already explained.

 

[Hawkhunter]

I believe all the Wein Air guys are retired. Still have quite a few Australia folks on property.

But consider this. As has been pointed out many times, the West is more familiar with those pilots who have questionable work ethics. Webster's has many definitions to describe those who you refer to, and the West probably has pilots fitting every one of those definitions. So from my more experienced point of view let me say this. It all boils down to if enough workers call you a name that name will stick. If your name is added to a list circulated amongst unions, that name will follow you around. The quickest way to get your name on that list is to cross a line.

The question is, how many east pilots crossed a line in their quest to steal West jobs? The answere is 2733.

Do not believe me. Go read the RICO complaint. The West is accused of conspiring with other airlines to deny jumpseats. All we were doing was asking other airlines not to confuse us with you. Go read the ALPA web board the day usapa won the election, it is full of comments of West support, and disdain for the east.

So go ahead and keep pointing out that there are west pilots who crossed a line, their name is on a list that just might grow by 2733.

Your right, I do not believe you. Funny thing, everytime I ride offline J/S I here support how the East got hosed and keep up the fight. Tell me again how we are trying to STEAL your job? I already know all of you will cross the line if we strike and I could care less. All it will take is half of the East so dream on. You going to come to PHL and fly that 330 on the day of the strike?

 

[Metroyet]

The thought of Striking is pure fantasy. It's won't happen for MANY years if ever. Any talk otherwise is delusional...what else is new?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Gee then who flew the planes that US flew during the IAM strike in 92?

Saw many pilots cross the picket lines and even saw plenty of pilots doing IAM covered work during the 30 day cooling off period.

Actually, I was on vacation for the duration of the event. I have never done anyone else's contracted work, nor would I. But the IAM sure made it tempting for me to dust off my A&P.

 

[Barrister]

Personally, financially, so far my income has increased, despite the backward movement. I still hold a line, that lines monthly hours have increased due to less staffing. So I doubt I will collect much from usapa.

I am grateful to still have enployment during these hard economic times.

Let me ask you this. Who'e idea was perpetual seperate ops. I mean specifically, who first announced seperate ops would be the company's future. It took place at one of the ALPA, concensual solutions meetings. An individual east pilot declared we would remain in seperate ops as the solution to the east's disappointment in the Nic.

Then ask yourself, what is this former ALPA rep doing now. One answere according to the LM2 is collecting FPL from usapa.

So you may be correct. I may be owed nothing. My whining may be getting old. But it will be nowhere near as tiresome as cutting checks every month to pay those whose jobs you have taken.

Sure, you will be paid with pennies in a bucket filled with syrup. Dude this ain't even about you...it is about an 82 year old arb who penalized the very people who gave up the most to keep this place afloat....and then had the audacity to highlight how much we would "gain under your contract"....yea he really showed his understanding of how this business works. Get over it .....take up a hobby rather than constantly wringing your hands about what is being "taken" from you. You are owed NOTHING, you will get NOTHING. And we are all so glad YOU are doing well. The fact that you had to tell us means you aren't!!!!

 

[N924PS]

Sure, you will be paid with pennies in a bucket filled with syrup. Dude this ain't even about you...it is about an 82 year old arb who penalized the very people who gave up the most to keep this place afloat....and then had the audacity to highlight how much we would "gain under your contract"....yea he really showed his understanding of how this business works. Get over it .....take up a hobby rather than constantly wringing your hands about what is being "taken" from you. You are owed NOTHING, you will get NOTHING. And we are all so glad YOU are doing well. The fact that you had to tell us means you aren't!!!!

Just curious counselor.....have you ever actually read the Nicolau Award in its entirety?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

...it is about an 82 year old arb who penalized the very people who gave up the most to keep this place afloat....!

Why would you allow yourselves to leave your future to be decided by a 82 year old guy?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Why would you allow yourselves to leave your future to be decided by a 82 year old guy?

Ask ALPA

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Ask ALPA

So no one squawked when no other method of integration other than DOH (which is is USAPA's MO) was put forward in front of a 82 year old guy? Seems like ALPA was doing you a service. The strategy of delay, delay, delay does seem to work - at a cost.

 

[N924PS]

Why would you allow yourselves to leave your future to be decided by a 82 year old guy?

Do you think the arbitrators that both sides struck for selection would have rendered a different outcome?

As Dan Katz, the East's merger counsel penned "We could have done worse."

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Do you think the arbitrators that both sides struck for selection would have rendered a different outcome?

As Barrister alluded to: leaving your future in the hands of someone that is now viewed as unreliable didn't turn out too well.

Was this an intentional strategy of non negotiations or truly, just letting the chips fall where they may?

Either someone is really dumb or someone is just begging to go to court.

Obviously, the answer is to litigate to the bitter end.

So much for the high minded arguments.

Blaming things on a 82 year old guy is lame.

 

[USA320Pilot]

In my opinion, if USAPA and the Company were ever released from NMB mediation and a 30-day cooling off period ensued a strike would be very difficult for the union to accomplish. There could easily be (and probably more than) 2,700 or at least 60% of the pilots who would cross the picket line (1,700 West pilots, 300 management pilots, and about 700 East pilot Objectors/Non-members).

Furthermore, with the new East/West Pilot's Coalition gaining strength it is becoming more likely that a NMB Representation Election to select a new Collective Bargaining Agent could be held in 2010, which could make USAPA's strike threat moot.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[nic4us]

Sure, you will be paid with pennies in a bucket filled with syrup. Dude this ain't even about you...it is about an 82 year old arb who penalized the very people who gave up the most to keep this place afloat....and then had the audacity to highlight how much we would "gain under your contract"....yea he really showed his understanding of how this business works. Get over it .....take up a hobby rather than constantly wringing your hands about what is being "taken" from you. You are owed NOTHING, you will get NOTHING. And we are all so glad YOU are doing well. The fact that you had to tell us means you aren't!!!!

Good, then I can have my pancakes and pay for them too.

On the contrary, this is about me. Me, You, Nic, LCC, ALPA, usapa. By the way, Nic rewarded you, not penalized you. You gained by not being integrated in the method proposed by the West committee, which was entirerly reasonable. You gained by not being integrated on a straight ratio, which would have been reasonable. You gained seniority, we lost seniority, yet if you read the ruling, it is also reasonable.

I will take your advice and "get over it". But I will continue to remind usapa supporters of what they are doing, who they are harming, and possible outcomes of such actions.

We will let a court decide if anyone is owed anything and how much they will get.

 

[nic4us]

Your right, I do not believe you. Funny thing, everytime I ride offline J/S I here support how the East got hosed and keep up the fight...................................................... I already know all of you will cross the line if we strike and I could care less. All it will take is half of the East so dream on........................ You going to come to PHL and fly that 330 on the day of the strike?

I seldom ride j/s, much less offline. But I do encounter OAL crew on the vans, in the lobbies..etc. The most frequent comment I get is " how do you put up with those people".

Feel free to not believe me...But I will not cross a usapa picket line.

By the time usapa would be released to stike, there will be 330s in PHX.

 

[hp_fa]

Was this an intentional strategy of non negotiations or truly, just letting the chips fall where they may?

Either someone is really dumb or someone is just begging to go to court.

Obviously, the answer is to litigate to the bitter end.

So much for the high minded arguments.

Blaming things on a 82 year old guy is lame.

It doesn't fly because at the very end Nicolau specifically asked Katz to bring him another position. Katz came back the next day and, on instructions from his client, declined to change their position.

In my opinion, if USAPA and the Company were ever released from NMB mediation and a 30-day cooling off period ensued a strike would be very difficult for the union to accomplish. There could easily be (and probably more than) 2,700 or at least 60% of the pilots who would cross the picket line (1,700 West pilots, 300 management pilots, and about 700 East pilot Objectors/Non-members).

I disagree with that analysis. I don't think the West guys would fail to honor a valid strike and/or picket line. The repercussions for future jump seating would be too severe and I think they would think the matter through. But I think that scenario would be a good reason to get union management that is trusted into office and, of course, send SSM&P packing.