US Pilots' Labor Thread 9/4 to 9/17--STAY ON TOPIC

[USA320Pilot]

HP_FA,

HP_FA said: "But I think that scenario would be a good reason to get union management that is trusted into office and, of course, send SSM&P packing."

USA320Pilot comments: Your point above is well taken and is currently being discussed by East and West pilots. The USAPA strike threat seems to be fueling USAPA dissatisfaction and increasing the discussion on how "to get union management that is trusted into office."

The more I think about your thought that about 2,700 pilots would cross a legal picket line there is a moral argument and truth to your point that people would not not cross a legal picket line; however, I believe the thought of a work stoppage without even entering Section 6 negotiations has more-and-more pilots questioning the wisdom of keeping USAPA's Current Officers and BPR in office. The question seems to be would an internal or external movement be the best option to get union management that is trusted into office?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Reed Richards]

In my opinion, if USAPA and the Company were ever released from NMB mediation and a 30-day cooling off period ensued a strike would be very difficult for the union to accomplish. There could easily be (and probably more than) 2,700 or at least 60% of the pilots who would cross the picket line (1,700 West pilots, 300 management pilots, and about 700 East pilot Objectors/Non-members).

Furthermore, with the new East/West Pilot's Coalition gaining strength it is becoming more likely that a NMB Representation Election to select a new Collective Bargaining Agent could be held in 2010, which could make USAPA's strike threat moot.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Saber rattling aside, and I have been guilty of that myself, I don’t for a minute believe 1700 pilots of any kind, from any group, would scab. 300 management pilots..you have to be kidding. And another 700 (and I do not respect that figure) “objectors?â€￾ No, there is nothing wrong with being an "objector," it is legal and acceptable..but don't make them all scabs in your own eyes..they are not. Some actually have intense, and respectable beliefs..none of which means actually becoming the worst thing a union worker can become. The only thing they will be doing in the next few weeks is filling the coffers of USAPA.

If we are going to see an election in 2010, other than one called as a result of a merger, we are down to just over 100 days for an announcement of a card campaign. Good luck. Calling an election is more difficult than winning one. You obviously have the leadership skills and following to single handedly accomplish such a feat. Maybe you better check into the “Qâ€￾ while you do so, so as not to embarrass anyone.

Good luck in your campaign 320, I wish you well!

RR

 

[N924PS]

Reed, perhaps you can accomodate him with a suite at the Baxter Building.

And don't forget to cue Dr. Doom as the strike deadline looms.

As your monnniker suggests, this entire thread has become rather "comical" these days.

 

[hp_fa]

USA320Pilot comments: Your point above is well taken and is currently being discussed by East and West pilots. The USAPA strike threat seems to be fueling USAPA dissatisfaction and increasing the discussion on how "to get union management that is trusted into office."

The way that I see it that I don't see any possibility of a strike until 2012. The East contract is not yet "ripe" for negotiation. (I used the word "ripe" since SSM&P likes to use that word.) By the time it is ripe it will take a significant period of time before a federal mediator is brought in and then it will stretch out before he/she allows the 30-day cooling off period. I don't see a strike anytime soon.

 

[HPDriver]

I don't think the West guys would fail to honor a valid strike and/or picket line. The repercussions for future jump seating would be too severe and I think they would think the matter through.

You are spot on.

A wildcat action by USAPA would simply be ignored by everyone on the west

But a legit picket line would not be crossed.

 

[hp_fa]

You are spot on.

A wildcat action by USAPA would simply be ignored by everyone on the west

But a legit picket line would not be crossed.

A wildcat strike, if it occurred, would make Judge Wake's injunction look like child's play compared to what another judge would do to USAPA and it's management.

IMO, Cleary is just yapping and looking to get AmeriJet folks to pay USAPA dues. I could be wrong, but we'll see...

 

[Reed Richards]

I am impressed, though not surprised at the postings of late, 320 be damned. Most all of us respect the sanctity of a picket line, and most all of us respect the sanctity of a jumpseat. Thanks to you all for at least showing the respect for the profession tonight, despite your/our potential battles to the death.

Good night,

RR

 

[Phoenix]

Saber rattling aside, and I have been guilty of that myself, I don’t for a minute believe 1700 pilots of any kind, from any group, would scab. 300 management pilots..you have to be kidding. And another 700 (and I do not respect that figure) “objectors?â€￾ No, there is nothing wrong with being an "objector," it is legal and acceptable..but don't make them all scabs in your own eyes..they are not. Some actually have intense, and respectable beliefs..none of which means actually becoming the worst thing a union worker can become. The only thing they will be doing in the next few weeks is filling the coffers of USAPA.

If we are going to see an election in 2010, other than one called as a result of a merger, we are down to just over 100 days for an announcement of a card campaign. Good luck. Calling an election is more difficult than winning one. You obviously have the leadership skills and following to single handedly accomplish such a feat. Maybe you better check into the “Qâ€￾ while you do so, so as not to embarrass anyone.

Good luck in your campaign 320, I wish you well!

RR

I am looking forward to the campaign letters. I'll store them with the multitide of FOD that I got from ALPA before April 17th. Did anyone ever actually open junk mail?

 

[Al Legheny]

What is USAPA?
The US Airline Pilots Association represents 5,200 Mainline US Airways pilots.

NOW: CHARLOTTE, N.C. – September 2, 2009 Headquartered in Charlotte, N.C., the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) represents more than 5,000 US Airways pilots in seven domiciles across the United States.

They need to change that 5200 number. Truth in advertising, you know. 139 too high. Not sure what a big deal, but I’ll file a report.

To recap, USAPA membership was rising before the Addington decision, not stagnant, as claimed. Since Addington, a huge increase, most from the West. The initial dues-paying membership was 2524, 10 weeks into USAPA representation. Now it’s 3218, 95% of East active pilots. Every other union uses the term "representing" to include all active pilots, furloughed, objectors, in their public relations releases. So does USAPA. LM-2s only report actual working pilots. Again, I hope that explains the difference. The increase in membership of 694, especially when considering furloughs of 270, is not membership stalling as previously said.

The numbers in 3-31-09 LM-2 were 3218/4753 (active). That's 68% membership on 5 month old data. On 3-31 West had about 1700 active pilots. About 12% were members. So East had about 2900 members of the 3100 east active or 95% of the East active pilots were members. The 737 East objector number is not correct. When the June 2008 LM-2 was filed there were applications awaiting BPR vote approval, not that anyone was ever turned down, but all the squares hadn’t been filled. With the influx of new west membership since Addington, Id say members will top 3800 with next BPR rubber-stamp approval. That's a guess based on latest snooping. It might be higher. Thats 80%.

"Nicolau characterized MDA "a regional carrier," but, oddly, then acknowledged that it did not have a separate operating certificate."

I think it was more like, what did Nic learn and when did he learn it? If so, collateral damage, but with a legit list, no need to get worry. Its really not important, is it? As Hate2fly said, MDA holds things close to the vest,

I may be mistaken, but I do believe there is something to that 5,200 number.

In a sense USAPA does represent all 5,200 pilots , or what ever the acutall count of the bargaining unit is, because there is only one certified bargaining agent. USAPA represents all US Airways for the purpose of contract negotiation and contract enforcement via the grievance process.

It is obvious that USAPA does not have 5,200 members. I believe the number of members is increasing but there are still many non-members.

 

[Reed Richards]

Al, the 5200 number, also known as "a mile of pilots" is indeed notable...that is close to the total number of pilots that would be allowed to participate in any NMB sanctioned election. In order to throw USAPA off the property, someone will have to collect at least half that many cards (plus one!) in order for a new bargaining agent election to be held. Even if the election is called due to a merger, the 5200 number will still be applicable to the total number of votes on the US Airways side.

RR

 

[Megasnoop]

Al, the 5200 number, also known as "a mile of pilots" is indeed notable...that is close to the total number of pilots that would be allowed to participate in any NMB sanctioned election. In order to throw USAPA off the property, someone will have to collect at least half that many cards (plus one!) in order for a new bargaining agent election to be held. Even if the election is called due to a merger, the 5200 number will still be applicable to the total number of votes on the US Airways side.

Al and RR, the west arguing about this 5200/5061 difference is Saul Alinski Chicago-syle trivializing from those with no reasoned argument. IF they can come up with enough cards, the NMB will determine how many half+1 is (2601, 2531, whatever).

There could easily be (and probably more than) 2,700 or at least 60% of the pilots who would cross the picket line (1,700 West pilots, 300 management pilots, and about 700 East pilot Objectors/Non-members).

Possible NMB impasse/cooling off/strike is probably 3 years away. NMB moves like a glacier. I can't understand why either side is wasting time discussing it. The BPR won't decide on their own about a strike without a strike vote. Without 90+% for a Strike? FUGEDABOUTIT!

700 East objectors? Right now, less than 200 East non-members (2900/3100). 95% East membership, big guy. Where are you getting that 700 number? Show your work.

Furthermore, with the new East/West Pilot's Coalition gaining strength it is becoming more likely that a NMB Representation Election to select a new Collective Bargaining Agent could be held in 2010, which could make USAPA's strike threat moot.

Gaining strength? This political drive hides behind anonymous websites. Dislike USAPA all you want. They were upfront out in the open from the beginning. You knew our names. Only one well-meaning west pilot, willing to say his name to this "coalition" drive. Chip Munn did write an Op Ed using his name. This coalition needs to come out of the shadows and ID yourselves, then maybe the coalition will be taken seriously.

 

[Reed Richards]

Megasnoop said: 700 East objectors? Right now less than 200 East non-members (2900/3100). 95% East membership, big guy. Where are you getting that 700 number? Show your work.


Snoop, my error....I am still a little groggy from my trip to the Negative Zone last night, and I cannot seem to find Sue..it's like she is invisible. But I digress. I reread USA320's post and he did not say "700" Objectors. He said 700 Objectors/non members. My bad.

RR

 

[Richard]

Reminder, discuss the posts, not the posters....do NOT make remarks, comments or insult other members.

 

[Hate2fly]

I am looking forward to the campaign letters. I'll store them with the multitide of FOD that I got from ALPA before April 17th. Did anyone ever actually open junk mail?

Phoenix,

I will tell you what I am looking forward to!

Lump sum payout Jan. 2010 and Jan 2011

TA 8 and TA 10 we should get the results very soon

LOA 84 pay restoration

PBGC lawsuit

9th Circuit

MDA lawsuit

Flight Time Duty Time changes

One year closer to age 65

The company already lost the Long Term Disability grievance to the tune of $40 million!

TA 8 and TA 10 is going to cost them big time!

LOA 84 will be huge!

Flight time duty time can you say recalls and new hires!

The lawsuits will play out on there own...............

Should make for an interesting New Year!

Hate

 

[Freighterguynow]

Gaining strength?

Yea, they got a brand new member and now it's an army of 3.