US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/30-7/7 KEEP ON TOPIC-NO PERSONAL COMMENTS

[hp_fa]

C'mon HP.

He understands it perfectly well. This is flame bait from the East corn field. You don't see that?

I suspect that may be correct. However I don't see a downside to answering the legitimate question for a couple of reasons. One, there may be lurkers wondering the same thing and by answering the question it may answer someone else's question. Two, if the person is a troll and we see it, then others probably see it and they may wonder if this is the type of behavior they expect from their professional peers.

Now I have questions about the poster's name and whether it is related to a prohibited drug, a sex act or what? But that isn't a question that I have to answer and by trying to take the high road I have nothing to lose in a credibility comparison, if one were taking place.

 

[Metroyet]

Now I have questions about the poster's name and whether it is related to a prohibited drug, a sex act or what?

I'm gue$$ing the later..A$k $eham, of $$m&p. He'll know.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

The DFR is a case about discrimination and Congress has deliberately made it difficult for plaintiffs to get into federal court against a union.
And to be discriminated against, one must have desired participation in some event.
This is where I see these two issues intersect. Wake wouldn't hear it. The 9th will...in my opinion.

I think you inhaled the USAPA flatulence and you can't see reality.

Good luck with that.

 

[Richard]

DO NOT discuss other members on this thread. If you have suspicions about a poster's identity PM a moderator.

For the record, members are permitted ONE screen name/persona only. Creating a duplicate results in the deletion of all posts by the duplicate and lengthy suspension for the original -- and creating a duplicate to skirt a suspension is a ban from the boards...along with the ip address.

 

[Beancounter]

I think you are mis-stating it probably due to not fully understanding it.

A trial court determines the facts in any case. The appellate court only potentially revists matters of law. Now, if the appellate court were to determine that, as a matter of law, that Judge Wake made a fundamental error in applying the law, including evidenciary rulings, jury instructions or else mis-applied the law as it exists in the 9th Circuit (either Supreme Court cases or other 9th Circuit cases) it could remand the case back to Judge Wake for a new trial. The odds against that, at this point, are no longer what most folks would deem betting odds. (10% or less) The odds for USAPA were much better going into this whole thing because favorable results for a plaintiff are exceedingly rare. As I said in my previous post, most DFR cases never make it to the trial stage. (The actual percentage is probably less than 5%.) This case got past that and resulted in a plaintiffs verdict. The odds for USAPA succeeding at this point are slim at best.

I sat through all but the first day of trial as an observer. I don't think that the decision will be overruled, but of course it is possible that I am wrong.

Does that help at all?

Very well said. I wasn't surprised at the recent, "Susie" ruling. I'd be very surprised though if our union gets anything more than a big lawyer's bill for the continued fight against the Nic. I'm a little disapointed at USAPA's legal team. One of the things you learn in accounting is that a profession is distingtuished from other occupations because of the responsibility you have for the intersts of the people you serve. USAPA is getting very poor advice that only profits the lawyers wallets. I only have an intermediate understanding of the law and so far I've correctly predicted the legal outcomes 100%. At what point will we start focusing on things that can be changed?

 

[mach92flyr]

First time post, so be gentle. West Airbus F/O and soon to be USAPA member. Like many of my peers, waited until the Susie case was resolved. I don't think anyone was truly surprised about the outcome as most knew sooner or later we would have to pay Seeman...err USAPA.
I find it amusing the amount of "jailhouse lawyers" that are on this thread. Makes me shy to offer my opinion when all I have is a law degree when compared to all the Supreme Court Chief Justice opinions floating around here.
While I agree that USAPA's "hail mary" appeal to the 9th Circuit is doomed to be intercepted. I say "go for it". The senile, biased, liberal Court will likely close the chapter on this typical confuse, stall and wear down defense used by many lawyers when they don't have a case. One can already hear the USAPA spin machine gearing up for the final loss in their crusade.
The strike threat had me in stiches. How many UAL, TWA, Delta and other pilots need jobs? All AWA pilots will cross, rapid training of new hires and Doogie agreeing replacements get senioirty and USAPA's strike will collapse in hours. Even Cleary knows that strategy won't fly.
Since it is apparent that "DOH or Bust" is still Cleary's game plan. I say OK. We have alll waited this long. USAPA is down 3 touchdowns with two minutes to go; however there is no Joe Montana sitting on the bench to save the day.
To those who say Nic won't work, I say "balderdash". The result of a new contract with Nic will be a few East and West guys living closer to home and all pilots with more money in their pocket and more time with their families.
Good luck to all from a "not-so-good" new Union Pilot.

 

[hp_fa]

I find it amusing the amount of "jailhouse lawyers" that are on this thread. Makes me shy to offer my opinion when all I have is a law degree when compared to all the Supreme Court Chief Justice opinions floating around here.

Welcome. I am only a jailhouse paralegal.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

First time post, so be gentle. West Airbus F/O and soon to be USAPA member. Like many of my peers, waited until the Susie case was resolved.

If you don't believe in USAPA's legitimacy and wish not to pay, then you are paying only to protect your job. I support USAPA's course of action because I believe circumventing NIC protects my job. So even though I believe we have the legal right to challenge the binding arbitration, and i choose not to abide by it through the legal process we have undertaken, if I were to stipulate that it was illegal to attempt to avoid NIC, but was going to disregard my pre arbitration aggreement to abide by arbitration and I was not going to abide by it any more, you out west would say I had no integrity. You took a job in a Union shop but won't pay, even though you agreed to. You are going against your own principles to protect your job just like I did. I don't question your integrity and I would do the same thing you are doing if I were in your shoes. So, If you question my integrity, then I conclude that you are in no position to judge me.

 

[traderjake]

You took a job in a Union shop but won't pay, even though you agreed to.

They worked here before there was a USAPA. They don't work for USAPA.

I never agreed to pay dues just like I never agreed to pay Income Taxes, it's required by law.

When USAPA quits trying to steal their jobs they may be more willing to pay.

 

[Poug Darker]

Agency shop with ALPOO, agency shop with USAPA - 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Pay up or hit the street.
Lots of guys on furlough want your job.

 

[Metroyet]

Agency shop with ALPOO, agency shop with USAPA - 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Pay up or hit the street.
Lots of guys on furlough want your job.

Alpa is a Legitimate Union. You know...an organization that at least attempts to provide the member with some kind of service.

USAPA is organized crime, (Jury said so). The USAPA Cowards have no intention or ability to provide a shred of benefit to it's membership. Whatever monies USCAPA gets is going straight into Sehams pocket...as evidenced by their recent finanical filing that puts them well over 7 figures in arrears to said charlatan.

 

[traderjake]

Agency shop with ALPOO, agency shop with USAPA - 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Pay up or hit the street.
Lots of guys on furlough want your job.

Not the same thing. I joined ALPA of my own free will.

It's speaks volumes that 47% choose not to join USAPA.

I paid my agency fee when I got my Section 29 letter.

You're going to have to find another way to steal my job.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

They worked here before there was a USAPA. They don't work for USAPA.

I never agreed to pay dues just like I never agreed to pay Income Taxes, it's required by law.

When USAPA quits trying to steal their jobs they may be more willing to pay.

I never agreed to NIC arbitration

 

[john john]

Alpa is a Legitimate Union. You know...an organization that at least attempts to provide the member with some kind of service.

USAPA is organized crime, (Jury said so). The USAPA Cowards have no intention or ability to provide a shred of benefit to it's membership. Whatever monies USCAPA gets is going straight into Sehams pocket...as evidenced by their recent finanical filing that puts them well over 7 figures in arrears to said charlatan.

And ALPA single handedly did away with the pilot’s pension without a vote form the membership. A lot of deals bargaining and negotiations can and will be done with labor and management to achieve objectives Just thing what has gone down in the past contracts and agreements with the unions and management. There will be changes in union contracts. the new kids on the block have a lot to discover

 

[luvthe9]

And ALPA single handedly did away with the pilot’s pension without a vote
form the membership .

Now that's the crime of the century. ALPO sux.