US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/18-6/23-Stay on Topic and Observe the Rules

[Captain Underpants]

Actually you are wrong. I am suggesting that folks think ahead and not in the moment. If that causes pain I am sorry, but it is not the intent.

Thinking ahead then....

The legal lines will be drawn by the court. The fairness issues remain and will be resolved by the pilots.

The West does not get to keep the Nic windfall because neither the law nor the pilots will allow it. There is simply no reason to grant one group of pilots a windfall at the expense of another. Exactly how the balance of fairness gets restored is yet to be determined.

If the court tries to force the radioactive Nic award into the room for contract negotiations it only makes the problem worse and makes a difficult process near impossible.

Maybe Wake is smart enough to follow the Hippocratic oath of ethical practices....."Above all, do no harm".

underpants

 

[hp_fa]

SPECULATION- Show Spelled Pronunciation [spek-yuh-ley-shuhn]
conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts.

HYPOTHETICAL- Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahy-puh-thet-i-kuhl] Show highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence.

I thought we talked about this before....didn't we?

Yes, it sure was speculation, it sure was hypothetical and we sure have spoken about it. I had suggested that we do some "long term thinking" and that, by definition, requires speculation. However, the hypothetical points upon which I made my speculation were all in USAPA's favor. That was a best case scenario looking at the situation if USAPA were to prevail at the Ninth Circuit.

Is it also speculation that time and money will be wasted as this goes forward?

 

[nic4us]

I know this is a technical point, but how can a pilot have 23+ years of continuous service at a company that has only existed 3+ years?

They cannot. It is just a way of saying a non-furloughed pilot who rationalizes why it is okay to steal anothers job.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

.

Is it also speculation that time and money will be wasted as this goes forward?

YES.

But, hey...we are all 3rd year pilots now...right?

 

[wopr21]

I know this is a technical point, but how can a pilot have 23+ years of continuous service at a company that has only existed 3+ years?

I don't remember getting hired 3 and half years ago...

please...

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

Yes, it sure was speculation, it sure was hypothetical and we sure have spoken about it. I had suggested that we do some "long term thinking" and that, by definition, requires speculation. However, the hypothetical points upon which I made my speculation were all in USAPA's favor. That was a best case scenario looking at the situation if USAPA were to prevail at the Ninth Circuit.

Is it also speculation that time and money will be wasted as this goes forward?

rats...you're gonna make me do this..aren't you?

A more accurate summation of our chat was where you defended yourself by saying that hypothetical thinking was fabulous, and good. (paraphrasing)...And you were NOT speculating...and that there was a difference.

And you're doing it here again.

Hope that helps.

 

[nic4us]

Thinking ahead then....

The legal lines will be drawn by the court. The fairness issues remain and will be resolved by the pilots.

The West does not get to keep the Nic windfall because neither the law nor the pilots will allow it. There is simply no reason to grant one group of pilots a windfall at the expense of another. Exactly how the balance of fairness gets restored is yet to be determined.

If the court tries to force the radioactive Nic award into the room for contract negotiations it only makes the problem worse and makes a difficult process near impossible.

Maybe Wake is smart enough to follow the Hippocratic oath of ethical practices....."Above all, do no harm".

underpants

Underpants,

The Nic is more than you deserve. If you are lucky the upcoming remedy will merely guarantee the Nics implementation.

Thanks for that warning to start paying dues. I have one for you. Start saving money, there is a damages trial coming up.

 

[hp_fa]

The legal lines will be drawn by the court. The fairness issues remain and will be resolved by the pilots.

I disagree. The Addington case sounds at least in part in equity, which means that the Court will decide fairness.

The West does not get to keep the Nic windfall because neither the law nor the pilots will allow it. There is simply no reason to grant one group of pilots a windfall at the expense of another. Exactly how the balance of fairness gets restored is yet to be determined.

I disagree, but as Nic would point out part of my disagreement is based upon the speculation of what I think will or won't be contained in Judge Wake's remedy. I think the law will allow it and the pilot's won't have a further voice in it except for the possibility of indefinite separate operations because every contract would need to be voted down. I think (speculation) Judge Wake will impose Nicolau into every contract proposal until one is ratified.

If the court tries to force the radioactive Nic award into the room for contract negotiations it only makes the problem worse and makes a difficult process near impossible.

I believe that it is time to buy a radioactive protective uniform...

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

I don't remember getting hired 3 and half years ago...

please...

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

kindly show me ONE pilot who will at age 60 or 65 come out with MORE money fighting each other instead of fighting the company. I'll wait patiently for the answer to this.

Not always about the coin there, Bob.

quick, huh.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

hp, The west misconception is that USAPA was formed to get around the Nicolau award!

USAPA was formed for three major reasons:

1. Pension given away without a vote from the membership. Big mistake!

2. LOA93 has put this pilot group at the bottom of the industry in wages.

3. Nicolau Award windfall for the west.
Even if ALPA had fixed the Nic....... I still think they would have been voted off the island

You left out the most important reason:

So the East could weenie its way out of its Binding Arbitration, in a cowardly and craven way.


How'd that work out for you all?

 

[EastUS]

The Nic is more than you deserve.

Agreed.

 

[Poug Darker]

Post LOA 93 Pay Rates:
Did some cipherin' and came up with these.

1/1/2010
A330...229.55..156.78
GRP1..205.44..140.32
GRP2..178.14..121.67
E190...98.58...54.26

5/1/2010 (3% increase)
A330...236.43..161.48
GRP1..211.60..144.53
GRP2..183.49..125.32
E190...98.58...54.26

method is illustrated here (274k-pdf-download for free): http://rapidshare.com/files/246037635/Calc..._LOA_93_Pay.pdf

Cheers.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

One way or another it's ALWAYS about the coin.

OK. I will concede that it is difficult to translate the copier world to airline world. Schedules come to mind. Blockholder vs. reserve comes to mind. Vacation bidding comes to mind. It'd be simpler if you get your pilot license and try it out for awhile...then it's clearer.

But go ahead....read on...all are welcome to tell us pilots how to run our lives....

Meanwhile, we have thousands of unhappy pilots at this very company...and the company is leaving it to us to sort out....

 

[Richard]

Stop the personal digs now.......and get back on topic.