US Pilots Labor Thread 4/7 to 4/14- ALL US Pilots Labor Issues Here

[hp_fa]

At least your not in the hp-fa $5M camp. Since inception, first year USAPA attorney fees <$188K.

Senior Snoop, I said in that post a minimum of $1 Mil and that I would not be surprised at $5 Mil.

 

[cleardirect]

Snoop,

Did you call your rep today?

Does he have an estimate on legal costs yet?

Maybe we have to wait until after the trial before they inform the membership what tis little journey has cost.

 

[nostradamus]

Snoop,

Did you call your rep today?

Does he have an estimate on legal costs yet?

Maybe we have to wait until after the trial before they inform the membership what tis little journey has cost.

Does the west side get free legal fees?

 

[nostradamus]

america west pilots latest excerpt.

""One note: the union dues issue has been removed from consideration, but that is not surprising as Judge Wake has been paring the issues before the Court since our first hearing on October 29th. What we have now is a very focused question to be answered by the jury. That question relates to a union's actions which clearly conflict with its duty to fairly represent all pilots. That's it. We will know a lot more once the final Pre-Trial Conference takes place. This conference will be the final event in a long line of pre-trial procedurs mandated by the Rules of Civil Procedure. What it means for both sides is that the issue to be tried at trial will be clearly defined after this conference. What it means for the oppsing lawyer alone is that the next time he enters Court Room 504 at Federal Courthouse in Phoenix after this final Pre-Trial Conference, it will mark an event which he smugly promised at several videotaped USAPA events would never happen; he will have to defend the union's long trail of actions which more than likely lead to one conclusion.""

 

[nostradamus]

Yes they are. They are obviously unhappy that Judge Wake determined that the issue set for trial has been determined to be ripe for litigation. USAPA had vigorously argued both that the matter was already time-barred and that it hadn't yet reached a stage where litigation was appropriate. Again, they were setting a record for appeal, but it is really difficult to get a favorable ruling when you argue both arguments and they run counter to one another.

The other thing that is going on is both parties are laying the foundation for the record concerning possible appeals. That is standard in all litigations. They are looking for trial court errors in evidence presented, which is appealable. Whether a party appeals is a decision to be made later, however you always try and preserve the record.

urban dictionary

1. xxxx house lawyer

""An unqualified person who gives legal advice. Usually distorting the advice to favor a desired outcome.
You need to stop listening to that xxxx house lawyer or you're gonna get screwed!""

 

[Tiger 1050]

urban dictionary

1. xxxx house lawyer

""An unqualified person who gives legal advice. Usually distorting the advice to favor a desired outcome.
You need to stop listening to that xxxx house lawyer or you're gonna get screwed!""

It would have been better to provide a link to that urban dictionary...

 

[EastUS]

I am disappointed that you did not respond to to my point regarding MERGING the seniority lists. I am more than happy to be arranged by DOH within MY original airline. But when it comes to MERGING seniority list ....

And...here we have the point on which all our differences rest = DOH, within your own airline seemed completely reasonable. Why not? It was being universally applied to all within the same trade craft. HOWEVER...once that easily-seen-to-be fully-reasonable principal no longer suited the "Meee!" part of the equation...it..well...ummm....just what did happen? = It no longer served to better your own purposes, so you all chose to disregard it, and for NO other reason than that last. My belief's that it's every bit as reasonable when applied to any larger group within the same trade craft....period. I would now, and have always in the past, felt exactly that same way even when it completely ill suited any issues of my own gain, and in fact, disadvantaged me personally. Disregarding essential fundamentals and principals produces nothing but opportunism and strife. Any argument as to the strife part? 😉 Any/All out west can trumpet away about supposed "honor".."integrity"..etc..but that's the actual truth of things, at least as I see it.

 

[Tiger 1050]

And...here we have the point on which all our differences rest = DOH, within your own airline seemed completely reasonable. Why not? It was being universally applied to all within the same trade craft. HOWEVER...once that easily-seen-to-be fully-reasonable principal no longer suited the "Meee!" part of the equation...it..well...ummm....just what did happen? = It no longer served to better your own purposes, so you all chose to disregard it, and for NO other reason than that last. My belief's that it's every bit as reasonable when applied to any larger group within the same trade craft....period. I would now, and have always in the past, felt exactly that same way even when it completely ill suited any issues of my own gain, and in fact, disadvantaged me personally. Disregarding essential fundamentals and principals produces nothing but opportunism and strife. Any argument as to the strife part? 😉 Any/All out west can trumpet away about supposed "honor".."integrity"..etc..but that's the actual truth of things, at least as I see it.

I HAD a job May 19th of 2005. 1700+ east pilots who are currently working did not. Your position reeks of convenience. You yourself have nothing to lose by your own admission... I, on the other hand, am the sole provider for my family of 5.

I had no hand in the setbacks in the careers of east pilots and I will be damned if I am left to be some sort of restitution. I'll be glad when this is over. And *if* we win I will find great satisfaction in knowing it is eating you alive... Ya know with the evil plot and all... 🙄

 

[EastUS]

I HAD a job May 19th of 2005. 1700+ east pilots who are currently working did not. Your position reeks of convenience. You yourself have nothing to lose by your own admission... I, on the other hand, am the sole provider for my family of 5.

I had no hand in the setbacks in the careers of east pilots and I will be damned if I am left to be some sort of restitution. I'll be glad when this is over. And *if* we win I will find great satisfaction in knowing it is eating you alive... Ya know with the evil plot and all... 🙄

While I can easily understand your current stresses, and in no way wish them on anyone,....all of what you just posted is just another example of advancing concerned self interest, and has zero to do with adhering to principals or integrity.

I truly hope you'll be back on the line soon, or, better yet, perhaps take the advice of an irritating antique, and consider better ways for establishing an income stream for you and yours, that are less insane, fickle and financially unrewarding as this airline stuff has become.

 

[Tiger 1050]

While I can easily understand your current stresses, and in no way wish them on anyone,....all of what you just posted is just another example of advancing concerned self interest, and has zero to do with adhering to principals or integrity.

I truly hope you'll be back on the line soon, or, better yet, perhaps take the advice of an irritating antique, and consider better ways for establishing an income stream for you and yours, that are less insane, fickle and financially unrewarding as this airline stuff has become.

That's just it! I advance my self-interest with the idea that it will serve my wife and children. So it's not really of a self-serving foundation now is it? On top of which I would not be in this position if weren't for a bunch of disgruntled east pilots advancing THEIR own self-interests... So save the lecture on integrity. You and your fellow pilots haven't the credit to spew your righteous indignation while ignoring a legal and binding agreement.

 

[fodase]

The Nicolau is the seniority list! This according to deposition given to usapa by company vp of labor relations Al hemenway. So why no response by the usapa faithfull? oh that's right yall are incapable of fitting that into your view of the world.

 

[EastUS]

You and your fellow pilots haven't the credit to spew your righteous indignation while ignoring a legal and binding agreement.

But...ignoring and attacking/sabotaging a legally elected union's apparently just fine......and I do recall it was the west who assigned the term "Righteous Position" to their efforts within all this mess...was it not?

No matter, as nothing said here will effect any changes in the circumstances, and I honestly do wish you and yours well.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Which seniority list is Hemenway refering to as the list?

Nicalau...

Hardly.

If you really took the time to read what Hemenway said, he parsed his words very carefully. In effect, he is saying that there is no seniority list until there is a combined contract. And, he's right. If he meant anything otherwise, he would have referred to Nicolau, or the USAPA proposal. Bottom line:

Mr. Hemenway is saying that, as far as the company is concerned, the issue of a seniority list is yet to be determined.

 

[Metroyet]

Disregarding essential fundamentals and principals produces nothing but opportunism and strife. Any argument as to the strife part? 😉

Another verbose dispatch from the Bizzaro World.


DEFINE: IRONY

iro·ny Listen to the pronunciation of irony Listen to the pronunciation of irony
Pronunciation:
\ˈī-rə-nē also ˈī(-ə)r-nē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural iro·nies
Etymology:
Latin ironia, from Greek eirÅnia, from eirÅn dissembler
Date:
1502

1: a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony2 a: the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b: a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c: an ironic expression or utterance3 a (1): incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2): an event or result marked by such incongruity b: incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony tragic irony

 

[Metroyet]

Hardly.

If you really took the time to read what Hemenway said, he parsed his words very carefully. In effect, he is saying that there is no seniority list until there is a combined contract. And, he's right. If he meant anything otherwise, he would have referred to Nicolau, or the USAPA proposal. Bottom line:

Mr. Hemenway is saying that, as far as the company is concerned, the issue of a seniority list is yet to be determined.

Wanna Bet?