US Pilots Labor Thread 3/18-3/25-MUST READ FIRST POST

[nycbusdriver]

Taking a little liberty with the diapers analogy, I see. Your anal side is beginning to show - again.

Our top seniority folks ALL have been Captains since day one here - that's 24 and 25 years of uninterupted Captain-ship. And nearly all of them left a Captain's/Aircraft Commander seat at their previous airline/military position to come to work for America West.

Trust me, there wasn't a diaper in sight.

Furthermore, each and every one of them took a much bigger career gamble to work here at the little upstart AWA than your average 24 year old who's daddy got him hired at Piedmont/Useless in 1979.

That pretty much negates your not-so-subtle hint of superior experience on the east. It's just not there.

So, yea, it's those 517 I'm talking about.

And here's the important thing: even though I feel strongly that Nicolau got that part wrong, I accept the process, and am willing to live with the outcome.

Not that I expected anything else from you, I feel it necessary to point out that you are wrong (who would have thought ) about anybody's daddy getting him hired at Piedmont in 1979. At that time, Piedmont had a strong anti-nepotism policy. If daddy worked as a pilot for Piedmont, it was impossible to get hired there at the time. The policy did not change until the mid-1980s.

 

[Freighterguynow]

The other point is about the “hopeless gridlockâ€￾ comment. How do you present this to the jury?

1. Rice Committee - Fail
2. Denver Mec only - Fail
3. Wye River - Fail
4. ALPA East Neg Committee withdraws permanently from JNC talks at direction of MEC
5. MEC files lawsuit
6. Letter from Prater stating ALPA can only facilitate talks, no legal recourse to implement a merged agreement nor any time line what-so-ever.

I think that will do.

 

[Freighterguynow]

The tone of the Judge Wakes orders, rulings and comments leave me no other viable view of how he views the tactics and the facts.

HP, I thought a judge was to be impartial?

Wouldn't a clear indication of bias before a case ( any case ) be grounds for appeal or removal? Or, is it just criminal law where innocence is presumed.

 

[pilotn79]

HP, I thought a judge was to be impartial?

Wouldn't a clear indication of bias before a case ( any case ) be grounds for appeal or removal? Or, is it just criminal law where innocence is presumed.

I have spoken with attorneys who stood before Judge Wake. He is highly respected. I think your hopes for a hail mary will be dashed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I have spoken with attorneys who stood before Judge Wake. He is highly respected. I think your hopes for a hail mary will be dashed.

So was Bernie Madoff...until a few months ago.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

So was Bernie Madoff...until a few months ago.

Now that's rich,,,,,,

Who stands a better chance of walking out of the courtroom with his reputation and pride intact? Well respected Federal Judge Wake or widely despised slimy lawyer Seham?

On another matter, you deserve a couple points regarding Peidmont nepotism. But what about USeless - was nepotism prohibited there? No matter, as looking through the s. list reveals there are many, many names on there of individuals who were 23, 24 years old when they were hired. I do not mention this to discount their current experience, but it becomes obvious that most simply were NOT airline Captains stepping up to a better job with USAir.

That WAS the case with nearly all of AWA pilots hired in the first couple of years. So any true experience comparison would come out a virtual tie. A moot issue.

And THAT is why the 517 free passes that Nicolau gave you is distasteful to many on the West.

Again, we are mature enough to realize the we gave and honored our word in the arbitration. YOU, on the other hand, did not.

Where's is the HONOR on the east?

 

[ussnark]

But what about USeless - was nepotism prohibited there?

Yes. As far as you imply the definition of the word.

I don't think you are using the word, nepotism, as you intend, as,

"the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, esp. by giving them jobs."

Note the practice is not limited to "relatives" and can come from anyone with "power or influence".

 

[ableoneable]

HP, I thought a judge was to be impartial?

Wouldn't a clear indication of bias before a case ( any case ) be grounds for appeal or removal? Or, is it just criminal law where innocence is presumed.

Impartiality and forming an opinion on the merits of a case are not the same thing.

At the conclusion of a trial when a judge renders judgement he is still impartial.

The fact that he may be beginning to form an opinion, based on the briefs thus filed, that the USAPA legal team has a nowhere case is not the same thing as him being partial to one party or the other.

BTW innocence is only presumed in individual criminal cases. If a corporation is charged in a criminal complaint they are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

 

[ClueByFour]

Wouldn't a clear indication of bias before a case ( any case ) be grounds for appeal or removal? Or, is it just criminal law where innocence is presumed.

Jude Wake pointing out that USAPA's case is not grounded in the law or reality does not indicate bias.

Even the judge cannot polish a turd (much less be expected to call it anything but a turd).

 

[hp_fa]

HP, I thought a judge was to be impartial?

Wouldn't a clear indication of bias before a case ( any case ) be grounds for appeal or removal? Or, is it just criminal law where innocence is presumed.

As others have alluded to, the impartiality is at the beginning of the case. A judge is clearly allowed to make decisions and evolve his feelings towards the case and, also, the conduct of counsel in connection with the case.

It is clear to me that the judge has lost patience with USAPA's counsel. He has said, many times, that counsel should be preparing for trial and that it will begin on April 28th. He has previously continued the trial date from his tentative setting of February due to discovery issues. Of late he has been denying all attempts to continue or otherwise delay the trial on the issues of liability.

At the beginning of the case I highly doubt Judge Wake knew who USAPA was, did not know their counsel and knew nothing of the dispute. Had he known any of the parties he would have likely recused himself. He didn't, and barring any proof to the contrary, he was impartial. It is the issues and conduct in his court that is causing the apparent evolution of his feelings. That does not impair his judgment. It gets to the matter of which plaintiff's have complained, both substantively and procedurally.

BTW, rather than going full out preparing for trial, I have heard that USAPA has filed documents again seeking a stay or postponement in the proceedings despite Judge Wake's clear statement that the trial will go on April 28th. Apparently an interlocutory appeal has been prepared regarding the class certification issue and USAPA's counsel has sought permission of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to accept that appeal.

Honestly, I can draw one of two theories from all of that.

The first is USAPA is doing everything it can to not go to trial on April 28th and is filing anything it can in any court to delay the trial. If this is true, how can they be preparing for trial with all their assets or do they have so many assets that they can adequately do both at the same time? (And who is paying for all of this?)

The second is that USAPA is fully prepared for trial, but is doing anything it can to delay the trial and is making a huge record for appeal when the case finally gets to that stage. (Again, the question arises who is paying for all of this?)

I believe my first option is the correct option.

 

[cleardirect]

HP-FA,

You are correct. usapa filed a show cause motion on the 17th. Asking for a delay until the ninth rules. As of last night I did not see any appeal file with the court.

usapa gave lots of reasons for the delay. As you can quess.

It looks like a first year law student going through his law book filing every delay motion listed. What a waste of resorces by usapa on a case that they say is a winner.

 

[pilotn79]

So was Bernie Madoff...until a few months ago.

I don't understand the comparison with Bernie Made-Off with Judge Wake. It is obvious that your side is hoping for Judge Ito and the OJ jury.

 

[Ardenian]

How bout this one, USAPA is found responsible for its violations, and the judge orders refund of all dues collected from West, and gives the West a free pass on any future dues collection until a joint contract containing Nicolau is implemented.

Wow, if that's not the singular piece of evidence for why so many of us want separate permanent operations, no other post is.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

So was Bernie Madoff...until a few months ago.

Got anything against Judge Wake? Post it, please, I'd like to know. Judge Wake is highly regarded in this state, I've talked to several lawyers about him, and have read his opinions on a few cases. He has nothing but good marks.

Unlike Bernie Madoff, everything Judge Wake has done is documented, his work is out there for everyone to see. Look it up before you think you can make a pre emptive strike on his character.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Got anything against Judge Wake? Post it, please, I'd like to know. Judge Wake is highly regarded in this state, I've talked to several lawyers about him, and have read his opinions on a few cases. He has nothing but good marks.

Unlike Bernie Madoff, everything Judge Wake has done is documented, his work is out there for everyone to see. Look it up before you think you can make a pre emptive strike on his character.

MY POINT was that Bernard Madoff WAS very well respected, too. Things change. Or, didn't you notice?