US Pilots Labor Thread 3/11-3/18 OBSERVE THE RULES

[HPearlyretiree]

Warned by whom and for what reason? Wye River was AFTER arbitration. Arbitration is final and binding. What part of this point don't you understand?

I am amazed at the East's continual attempt to hide from final and binding arbitration.

That is what it is all about.

But, instead, they shuck and jive around it and create all kinds of obsfucation to get everyone to discuss other things.

Good luck to the west. Let the jury know that the east have to live up to what you agreed to.

 

[Phoenix]

Let me try a more fact-based version...

See.. it will never end. But the funniest part is that each side actually thinks the other ever reads past the first line of disagreement.

 

[hp_fa]

See.. it will never end. But the funniest part is that each side actually thinks the other ever reads past the first line of disagreement.

Even funnier is that I do read past. But I took the poster requesting the information at his word that he (she) was new to this ongoing issue. When the first sentence of the first Reader's Digest spoke of decades ago I felt that left way too much room in an intended factual statement to let that go. So, I spent 20 minutes typing what I thought was a more objective version. Again, objective is in the eye of the reader and writer, I agree with that.

Anyway, have a good night.

 

[nostradamus]

Transition agreement, bada bing, bada boom.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Judge Wake issued a new order today. It is an excellent summation of why the West pilots can continue en mass as a "class." It does not bode well for the defendant - usapa. Here are some comments the judge made in his 12 page order (admittedly, out of context, but you'll get the idea):



"This reasoning is empty.

USAPA’s seniority proposal, on the other hand, tilts strongly in favor
of East Pilot interests.

USAPA’s faint protests on this point ring hollow.

USAPA’s remaining arguments on this point barely merit discussion.

Their (the plaintiffs’) affirmative replies demonstrated a high-level sense of the
case’s substance and not, as USAPA contends, a mistaken impression.

USAPA’s other arguments concerning Plaintiffs’ counsel are easily rejected.

USAPA’s complaints regarding arbitration scheduling, details of a contested
stipulation, and discovery disputes add nothing to the analysis."





This order is a good read and should give pause to most of the east chest thumping we see here. Anybody care to take a guess as to how long it will take usapa to post the entire order on their site and how deeply hidden it will be when they eventually click on the mouse to load it?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Transition agreement, bada bing, bada boom.

I thought it was Rakestraw, bada bing, bada boom?

 

[nostradamus]

Part of the america west pilots update for March 9, 09, follows my opinion.

The west pilots were able to gain class action status regarding their most recent lawsuit. One week they were begging for the money, the next week they had it. Their claim of a "co founder" that "gambled" $30,000 does not pass the smell test. The money came from an organization that would be embarrassed by the knowledge of its participation.

Follow the money.

""We have come a long way since last September, but the battle is far from over. We see plenty of silly stickers on many West flight bags which register a pilots disdain for what USAPA is trying to do. We, the founders of Leonidas, understand the therapeutic value of displaying those stickers and wearing the lanyards (though personally, that is just not our style), but the fact is that stickers and lanyards do nothing to protect our legal rights. Litigation, however, does and that requires money“ lots of it. One of the Leonidas, LLC co-founders gambled over $30,000 of his own money because he was convinced that this campaign was what the West pilots really wanted and required. Soon after we got going many West pilots climbed on board and supported our legal cause. Now we can proudly state that the vast majority of West pilots have contributed financially. However, we are still left wondering where the few remaining pilots are, and why they have yet to chip in at this point, allowing others to carry their share of the load. To those of us whom have given not just our money, but also countless hours on this project, it is incomprehensible how there remains any West pilots who would possibly allow this trial to come and go without sacrificing anything to the cause. Stickers and lanyards may be nice, but it is money which fuels a legal campaign. If you have not contributed, for any reason, we strongly urge you to search your soul and ask yourself where your career would be without this case going to trial. The time is fast approaching when it will be too late, and the pilot who did nothing will have to live with that fact for the rest of their career.""

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

 

[cleardirect]

Part of the america west pilots update for March 9, 09, follows my opinion.

The west pilots were able to gain class action status regarding their most recent lawsuit. One week they were begging for the money, the next week they had it. Their claim of a "co founder" that "gambled" $30,000 does not pass the smell test. The money came from an organization that would be embarrassed by the knowledge of its participation.

Follow the money.

But you are wrong. It did come from an individual. I don’t suppose you have any evidence to back up your statement of fact?

Are you starting to understand the dedication that we have to this?

Imagining ghosts behind every corner will defeat you in the end. Care to share your theory? Let me guess. It came from an organization on the east coast. Somewhere near DC.

I heard a theory the other day from one of the dues collectors. The Nicolau is not valid because ALPA paid off Nicolau. That one baffles me. Absolutely no facts or reason for that. But one of the usapa higher ups believes it to be true.

Conspiracy theories, ghosts, boogie men all out to get the east pilots.

When the truth is so much easier to believe and prove. I hope that sometime in May we can put these nonsense conspiracy theories away and work towards a contract. But I doubt it.

 

[nostradamus]

But you are wrong. It did come from an individual. I don�€™t suppose you have any evidence to back up your statement of fact?

Are you starting to understand the dedication that we have to this?

Imagining ghosts behind every corner will defeat you in the end. Care to share your theory? Let me guess. It came from an organization on the east coast. Somewhere near DC.

I heard a theory the other day from one of the dues collectors. The Nicolau is not valid because ALPA paid off Nicolau. That one baffles me. Absolutely no facts or reason for that. But one of the usapa higher ups believes it to be true.

Conspiracy theories, ghosts, boogie men all out to get the east pilots.

When the truth is so much easier to believe and prove. I hope that sometime in May we can put these nonsense conspiracy theories away and work towards a contract. But I doubt it.

Individual part of discovery.

Nicolau was not paid off, he rendered his decision with the help of the pilot """neutrals"""

Your sanctimonious goal of a contract is bs, your only concern is of your seniority due to the future merger. west pilots had 23 years in sub standard wages, they only want to leap frog a generation of dues paying that only experience can provide.

 

[EastUS]

It's been working pretty well, actually. We have hope and the law is on our side. How's it working for you?

Not bad here at all. Firstly; The ALPA Show, starring Porky Prater and the Prancing Porcines,and featuring the famous tap dancing Chorus of Complete Corruption, (most noted for their long running "sell out" performances of Sewerdance)...is long GONE!! 😉 As for the west vs east? = Since the first triumphant west shouts of "It's OVER!!..Get used to it!"/"Booyooshaka!"/"I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" (all actual quotes from "righteous" and "rightfull" west illuminati)...Well?..The reality is that it's coming up on two years now...and I've yet to see any west persons functionally take away over a decade plus of their eastern counterpart's seniority (actually earned by years worked, and thusly; morally legitimate and actual), all entirely for the west's purely selfish gain, nor do I see any of you based out east. Whatever occurs in any courtrooms; I honestly don't expect at least that last to change in the at all forseeable future..if ever. While none can project the far future with any certainty....For now; I'm quite content.

 

[tazz]

Not bad here at all. Firstly; The ALPA Show, starring Porky Prater and the Prancing Porcines,and featuring the famous tap dancing Chorus of Complete Corruption, (most noted for their long running "sell out" performances of Sewerdance)...is long GONE!! 😉 As for the west vs east? = Since the first triumphant west shouts of "It's OVER!!..Get used to it!"/"Booyooshaka!"/"I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" (all actual quotes from "righteous" and "rightfull" west illuminati)...Well?..The reality is that it's coming up on two years now...and I've yet to see any west persons functionally take away over a decade plus of their eastern counterpart's seniority (actually earned by years worked, and thusly; morally legitimate and actual), all entirely for the west's purely selfish gain, nor do I see any of you based out east. Whatever occurs in any courtrooms; I honestly don't expect at least that last to change in the at all forseeable future..if ever. While none can project the far future with any certainty....For now; I'm quite content.

I truly don't know what all of that rambling means but I invite you to get on cactuspilot.com to read Judge Wake's recent order. I know that it isn't edited by usapa to tailor information to your specific needs but, a dose of reality and common sense sure can't hurt you.

This is fun, eastus, I look forward to meeting you some day, if you ever come out from hiding behind your screen name. You know who I am. Figured it out a long time ago.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I've got a prediction. This latest Judge Wake order that blows holes in much of usapas latest spin regarding the plaintiff group and class certification is going to generate a bit of discussion. And Nostradamus will bring out the link to the original usapa rico complaint, yet again, for probably the fiftieth time.

 

[EastUS]

I truly don't know what all of that rambling means...
.

1) Let me summarize in more simplistic terms: Alpa was a corrupt and worthless disaster, and is GONE..
2) It's been nearly two years now, and I don't see any west pilots based out east.
3) The nic's not the working seniority list, hasn't ever been, and I very much doubt will ever see any actual implementation. I'm not concerned with west notions to the contrary.

I think we're done for now. Call me if/when any westie takes an east seat.

As for "This is fun EastUS, I look forward to meeting you.." Does that mean you did get the Valentines flowers? Seriously; I've offered up plentiful wagers in the past for any westie that'd require meeting. Evidently..you weren't/aren't interested in actually backing up any of the standardly arrogant west BS?

 

[Freighterguynow]

Judge Wake issued a new order today. It is an excellent summation of why the West pilots can continue en mass as a "class." It does not bode well for the defendant - usapa. Here are some comments the judge made in his 12 page order (admittedly, out of context, but you'll get the idea):

USAPA’s seniority proposal, on the other hand, tilts strongly in favor
of East Pilot interests.

The ruling is to class certification - not the merits of the case itself.

Here's the full text of one of your points ( not enough time to refute each one):


Plaintiffs allege that USAPA
owed a duty of fair representation to the West Pilots as a whole. They further allege that
USAPA has breached this duty by neglecting contractual obligations assumed by USAPA’s
predecessor and US Airways to support the implementation of the Nicolau Award. The
Nicolau Award represented an internal union compromise of conflicting interests between
the two pilot groups. USAPA’s seniority proposal, on the other hand, tilts strongly in favor
of East Pilot interests

 

[toganoflex]

1) Let me summarize in more simplistic terms: Alpa was a corrupt and worthless disaster, and is GONE..
2) It's been nearly two years now, and I don't see any west pilots based out east.
3) The nic's not the working seniority list, hasn't ever been, and I very much doubt will ever see any actual implementation. I'm not concerned with west notions to the contrary.

East,

Your forgot one:

4) The east continues to labor under LOA93 and is saving the company a little over $122M a year as a result.