US Pilots Labor Thread 1/28 to 2/3

[nostradamus]

Is that you on the right, nosty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJJA1vvMc4I

No.

Having a point makes a discussion so much more intellectually stimulating by the way. Attacking a messenger not the message is an america west pilot signature.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Attacking a messenger not the message is an america west pilot signature.

You mean like this?

Get a life.

Seems like you hold your own in the attacking the messenger category.

Now, as to my message that you claim is wrong - I stand by my statement. Perhaps you've forgotten the MC's stated goals in the beginning - protect the widebody flying and attrition. No DOH goal, which they labeled unrealistic. If you've got proof to the contrary, present it.

Jim

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

No.

Having a point makes a discussion so much more intellectually stimulating by the way. Attacking a messenger not the message is an america west pilot signature.

Oh, sorry. I guess I just missed the factual information you placed in post #104. I didn't know we are all supposed to just accept everything you say.

The comparison is valid......

The point is, usapa-oids are continually twisting facts and warping reality whenever it suits their purposes - and that goes for nearly every east leaning poster on this board.

Imagine a union who is in one courtroom fighting FOR an untenable DOH policy, while at the same time is in another court fighting against a DOH list. Only in the bizarro world of usapa.

You people really do want it both ways, and apparently become a little sensitive when THAT fact is pointed out to you.

 

[nostradamus]

Now, as to my message that you claim is wrong - I stand by my statement. Perhaps you've forgotten the MC's stated goals in the beginning - protect the widebody flying and attrition. No DOH goal, which they labeled unrealistic. If you've got proof to the contrary, present it.

Jim

Prove your message, you can not, because it is not true. You have an opinion, like we all do and they all........

 

[nostradamus]

Oh, sorry. I guess I just missed the factual information you placed in post #104. I didn't know we are all supposed to just accept everything you say.

The comparison is valid......

The point is, usapa-oids are continually twisting facts and warping reality whenever it suits their purposes - and that goes for nearly every east leaning poster on this board.

Imagine a union who is in one courtroom fighting FOR an untenable DOH policy, while at the same time is in another court fighting against a DOH list. Only in the bizarro world of usapa.

You people really do want it both ways, and apparently become a little sensitive when THAT fact is pointed out to you.

You flame baited me and now you add rhetoric, what is your point?america west pilot history lesson, while asking for more money from its batterd following.

The American revolution, the Army of Leonidas,.......... How about Dr. Seuss next time.

 

[N924PS]

You are a Usairways pilot that came from PSA airlines with your date of hire, because of the will of the East pilots.

I think it was more the original USAir pilots protecting themselves by setting a precedent with the PSA merger. The PI merger was imminent and I believe they wanted to set a DOH precedent rather than having the PI pilots, many of them Captains with less length of service than their USAir counterparts, ratioed or slotted in front of them.

Also, a different ALPA merger policy existed at the time. Who knows though. Maybe USAPA will take us "Back to the Future." Then all the Empire pilots and former Shuttle pilots will leapfrog all but the most senior East pilots and a new world order will begin.

That would probably make the most senior pilot on the list a former Shuttle pilot that was hired by Eastern Airlines in 1973 Numero Uno.

 

[nostradamus]

I think it was more the original USAir pilots protecting themselves by setting a precedent with the PSA merger. The PI merger was imminent and I believe they wanted to set a DOH precedent rather than having the PI pilots, many of them Captains with less length of service than their USAir counterparts, ratioed or slotted in front of them.

Also, a different ALPA merger policy existed at the time. Who knows though. Maybe USAPA will take us "Back to the Future." Then all the Empire pilots and former Shuttle pilots will leapfrog all but the most senior East pilots and a new world order will begin.

That would probably make the most senior pilot on the list a former Shuttle pilot that was hired by Eastern Airlines in 1973 Numero Uno.

How about if we just make it easy. We will follow along with the we saved you attitude and put you on the bottom. This of course takes no will or courage, just a I have got mine attitude like yours sir.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Your statements are not correct. You are providing misinformation. Get a life.

No rebuttal except blanket denial-what no snarky "sir" to punctuate things?

 

[nostradamus]

The above posts are examples why the two most successful airlines for the past twenty years have been American Airlines and Southwest Airlines.

The reason for this is because neither of these airlines belong to the Airline Pilots Association, otherwise known as ALPA.

The pilots of American and Southwest have always had a rigid line to wait in to progress.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let's see, Nos, here's some comments from the early stages of the seniority integration:

"That is to say, we can't run around making rash statements like, "We've always merged date-of-hire," or, "Half our pilot group will be retiring in five years," in an attempt to make things conform with how we want the merger to turn out. That simply will hurt our credibility, especially with an arbitrator."

"As easy as it is to say DOH, unfortunately the process is not that easy to state nor predict."

"Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to date of hire, on the contrary. I just know that when you have two very different pilot groups then the fences can become so high that it is not a realistic option. In the end, it's the Arbitrator who will decide the integration method. A Merger Committee and legal Counsel can choose to help steer him or they can choose an unrealistic position; choosing the latter equates to electing a non-participatory approach and letting the chips fall where they may."

"ALPA Merger Policy makes no mention of date of hire or any other
method of achieving these goals. The Merger Representatives must
determine which method or combination's of methods best meet the goals.
The goals all address what your seniority will buy upon integration
and into the future. This is the yardstick of fairness by which any
proposed method of integration must be judged."

"However, straight DOH does not comply with ALPA merger policy. To comply with the merger policy language would likely require very tall fences which, in effect, would relegate you to US Airways, similar to the way Empire was given DOH as long as they stayed on their F28s."

Need more, Nos? I've got them if you do. Or an apology will do...

Jim

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

No rebuttal except blanket denial-what no snarky "Sir" to punctuate things?

Edited by me.

 

[nostradamus]

True, although it took time and the threat of recall before the MC arrived at that position.

The MC warned the East pilot group that DOH was an untenable position and that protecting the widebody flying and attrition-based movement was the best route to follow. The pilot group didn't like that message and insisted that DOH was the only acceptable outcome.

The MC didn't have target fixation - the pilot group pointed them at the DOH target with all controls frozen.

Jim

Jim, above are the apples we were talking about, when you want to change the the subject to oranges, lets finish the apples first please. I asked you to prove your statements above, I am still waiting with appled breath.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nos,

If you don't consider those quotes as warning against a hard DOH stance, that's your problem.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Nos,

If you don't consider those quotes as warning against a hard DOH stance, that's your problem.

Jim

Jim I appreciate the offer of a kiwi, but I have not finished my apples and oranges you offered.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

The pilots of American and Southwest have always had a rigid line to wait in to progress.

Comparing the U to two more successful carriers(w/o 2 Bks and a much larger PAX base) is misleading.

Perhaps apples vs. kumquats is a better analogy for your fruit based system.

Alaska would seem to be a better comparison.

You know- somewhat reginal etc... wait they do not have the superior east network-how did they avoid all the BKs that we have experienced?

Somebody did us wrong...over and over and over and over...again.