US Pilots Labor Thread 1/28 to 2/3

[cleardirect]

For the record on termination notices, just checked with my BPR, he thinks over 90 have already gone out. Will get back to me after tomorrows BPR meeting. USAPA has worked out back payment schedules with anyone who wants to get current, whether they join or not. We dont want anyone fired, just compliance with basic agency shop rules. Im sure 3 have gone out to females. but can anyone blame usapa for starting with the 2 biggest mouths? Clear has no idea who gets letters. he makes up "facts" and tries to weave stories around them. He loves throwing out legalese smoke screens and tying together unrelated or dated info into his conspiracy fantasies.

If you can prove where my facts have been incorrect I will concede the point to you.

Show me where my “legalese smoke screenâ€￾ has been wrong. I try to post the relevant portions of the documents. If I could upload the entire doc I would. If usapa would keep their legal library up to date and complete I would reference the doc. Do you only believe it if it is on the usapa site?

Most of my facts come with supporting documents. What have you got to prove your point? Making an accusation without evidence is a waste of time. Like the RICO suit. Dismissed with prejudice for lack of legal proof of even coming close to the law.

You have no idea where I get my information. I do know that someone’s “facts are incorrect.

For the record on termination notices, just checked with my BPR, he thinks over 90 have already gone out. Will get back to me after tomorrows BPR meeting.

From the January 18, 2009 update.

Forty names were selected this week for action. A courtesy phone call is given to each individual before the "15 Day Termination Letter" is put in the mail. So far, we've been getting good results. Thank you DCA pilots for doing your part. We have the fewest problems in all the bases regarding delinquent dues. Each month a new group of pilots from those delinquent will be randomly selected and given the opportunity to become current in lieu of termination.

So what is it 10, 40 or 90? Do the DCA reps not know what they are taling about? Are they making up "facts"? Terminating someone’s career seems to me like a pretty serious thing. I find it disturbing that a member of the BPR would not know exactly how many peoples lives they are going to effect. A bit cavalier if you ask me. That he has to “Get back to youâ€￾ on something like that.

Picking on the “loud mouthsâ€￾ is not a legal criteria for termination. I hope it was but I doubt that even usapa is that stupid. When there are other pilots in the same situation. Talk about creating a hostile work environment. That may be the way you conduct your life. But there are legal rules to firing someone.

I understand some in the east have trouble with the meaning and concept of legal and rules honor and integrity.

p.s. Section 6 will not change anything. Besides you are willing to wait another year before usapa starts to work on a contract? Good luck with that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

On January 18th FORTY names were on notice.

It's not January 18th anymore.

Do you see the distinction? Is it just POSSIBLE that another FIFTY notices went out since January 18th, more than two weeks ago?

 

[ableoneable]

Piney..........................They will wait for a court decision on the DFR lawsuit (from the west), and then they will wait until we enter Section 6 status in 2010.................

All of which assumes that USAir survives the 2009-10 economic environment.

Taking a quick look at the cash, restricted cash and loan covenant liquidity requirements it looks like LCC has about $520 million left to burn. (I am sure Jim can confirm or correct my numbers)

Bookings are reportedly significantly below initial projections for the first quarter.

Second through fourth quarters look make or break to me.

I have already started my second job.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Section 6 - with the Nic issue resolved or well on it's way to resolution in court, the economy returning to a positive rate of climb or at least stopping it's rate of descent, the union populated with elected officials, east and west - and I say it will make a definite difference.

Timing in contract negotiations is like location in real estate.

Which is why if I was Parker, I would ink a deal tonight rather than waiting a year. But he will probably do the wrong thing.

 

[cleardirect]

On January 18th FORTY names were on notice.

It's not January 18th anymore.

Do you see the distinction? Is it just POSSIBLE that another FIFTY notices went out since January 18th, more than two weeks ago?

Entirely possible. When I said that 10 letter had gone out at the time, possible. Current totaling up all of the letters to date. Possibly 90.

 

[nostradamus]

Entirely possible. When I said that 10 letter had gone out at the time, possible. Current totaling up all of the letters to date. Possibly 90.

Cactus Bob, in charge of the information administration for the west pilots, does not consider these termination letters. In a recent update he refers to this as;


"It must be noted that, as a result of having met the West in court on October 29th, there now appears to be a sincere effort from USAPA to reach out to the West and seek our inclusion in the union."

Yea, I think the letters showed you how sincere they are.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Taking a quick look at the cash, restricted cash and loan covenant liquidity requirements it looks like LCC has about $520 million left to burn. (I am sure Jim can confirm or correct my numbers)

End of 3rd quarter cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities totaled $1.277 million. The same number for end of 4th quarter was $1.054 million. That's a change of ($223 million), after realizing net proceeds from the new financing (loans) of $370 million. So US' "cash" dropped $370 million plus another $223 million - $593 million total - in the 4th quarter.

$400 million of the new financing was used to prepay an equal amount of the Citi loan, dropping the covenant requirement to $850 million. Taking that from the end of 4th quarter "cash" leaves a cushion of $204 million. They say that the auction rate securities count toward the Citi loan covenant, so that's another $187 million after the 4th quarter write-down in value (it was valued at $261 million at the end of 3Q08, $285 million at end of 2Q08, and $295 at end of 1Q08). Adding up "cash" and the auction rate securities (using end of 4Q08 value) gives $391 million in cushion.

About $100 - $150 million gross of the additional investments announced in the 4th quarter will close this quarter, so aren't included in any of the above. We'll probably have to wait for the 1Q09 report to find out the net realized from those.

Jim

 

[Megasnoop]

From the January 18, 2009 update.
So what is it 10, 40 or 90? Do the DCA reps not know what they are taling about? Are they making up "facts"? Terminating someone’s career seems to me like a pretty serious thing. I find it disturbing that a member of the BPR would not know exactly how many peoples lives they are going to effect. A bit cavalier if you ask me. That he has to “Get back to youâ€￾ on something like that.

Who really cares? You tried to turn the whole thing into a gender discrimination thing. Grasping at straws. With someone like you on top of everything, why would anyone have to rely on their BPR! But he did get back to me. About 20 letters sent out already. Near 100% compliance with paying. 90+ is the number of West pilots who are now in good standing. The choice of terminating employment is totally at the discretion of the dues dead-beat. Nobodys life is effected as long as your not a dead-beat. Dont pay and you fire yourself.

Picking on the “loud mouthsâ€￾ is not a legal criteria for termination. I hope it was but I doubt that even usapa is that stupid. When there are other pilots in the same situation. Talk about creating a hostile work environment. That may be the way you conduct your life. But there are legal rules to firing someone.

Not so sure "legal criteria" for termination is needed, except no pay, no work. I do like the loudmouths getting the first letters. 2 loudmouths happened to be female. But since your so obsessed with the %ages, looks like the %age of females is now less than 15% and dropping. But please keep a running count for us. Maybe with up-to-date numbers. I passed your "gender discrimination" accusation on to one of our committee chairwomen. She was amused.

p.s. Section 6 will not change anything. Besides you are willing to wait another year before usapa starts to work on a contract? Good luck with that.

If the company doesnt have any motivation, well all wait another year. At least until June to change their attitude. But maybe your right about S-6 not changing anything. In this economy, anyway. snoop.com

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just out of curiosity and directed to those who see East Section 6 as something of a landmark event in contract talks. Why was West Section 6 effectively deemed worthless and cast aside?

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Just out of curiosity and directed to those who see East Section 6 as something of a landmark event in contract talks. Why was West Section 6 effectively deemed worthless and cast aside?

Jim

Nothing was cast aside as far as I have read. The america west pilot union leader sent a letter to USAPA shortly after the election results. Click here for the former america west alpa letter demanding their rights.

After the letter was sent in the same america west leadership launched an illegal, criminal and unprofessional campaign to destroy the new union. USAPA vs awappa

The rico part of this suit was dismissed but the remainder is still being litigated because of the tremendous damage done to USAPA.

They were demanding USAPA to represent them, but at the same time america west pilots were refusing to join or support them and worse, attempting to impair their ability to function.The allegations of conduct by america west pilots.

I hope this explains the delay in the section 6 negotiations jim.

 

[nic4us]

Nothing was cast aside as far as I have read. The america west pilot union leader sent a letter to USAPA shortly after the election results. Click here for the former america west alpa letter demanding their rights.

After the letter was sent in the same america west leadership launched an illegal, criminal and unprofessional campaign to destroy the new union. USAPA vs awappa

The rico part of this suit was dismissed but the remainder is still being litigated because of the tremendous damage done to USAPA.

They were demanding USAPA to represent them, but at the same time america west pilots were refusing to join or support them and worse, attempting to impair their ability to function.

I hope this explains the delay in the section 6 negotiations jim.

Nostro,

You remember this completely diffrently than I.

As I recall the West request for section 6 was immediatley replied to by Bradford with a letter stating the union would not persue section 6 on the West behalf, and that we could expect contract improvements upon implementation of an eventual joint contract. Surprised us because we got the lawyer on tape saying they could offer a "cost nuetral" contract in exchange for DOH. Perhaps Cleardirect or someone else can come up with that letter. This all happened way before any of the alleged sabotage.

The truth is the union had no intrest in West section 6 because the West already had a better contract than the east. The east led union had no intention of trying to improve the West position. That would be a waste of their time in their quest for DOH.

Also, as I understand it the RICO suit was dismissed with prejudice, but USAPA is not persuing the reamaining allegations in state court. They are appealling the decision of the judge in the Federal appellate court. Still trying to make the Rico charges stick.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I hope this explains the delay in the section 6 negotiations jim.

You'll understand if I don't take your word. How about some proof that West section 6 negotiations were merely "delayed." Seems like the NAC has been working on a joint contract since it was formed, but I've heard nothing about their work on proposals for West section 6 talks.

I'll look forward to seeing your evidence supporting the claim of a mere "delay" in West section 6 negotiations.

Personally, I see pros and cons in separate section 6 negotiations. They possibly give a little leverage in getting joint contract talks moving faster (assuming that's the goal), but could be seen as a distraction to joint contract talks (using manpower/resources that could possibly be better used for joint contract). I guess one could argue that the best outcome would be successful section 6 negotiations for both East and West, thereby raising the standard that a joint contract would have to meet.

But my question was not whether section 6 or joint contract talks should be occurring or not, but why some see East section 6 as providing an advantage but apparently not seeing the same advantage in West section 6. Delayed or cast aside - neither answers that question.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

After the letter was sent in the same america west leadership launched an illegal, criminal and unprofessional campaign to destroy the new union. USAPA vs awappa

Can you post a link to the actual TRO, rather than the motion for one?

The rico part of this suit was dismissed but the remainder is still being litigated because of the tremendous damage done to USAPA.

It's on appeal because the Angry FO Club From Cranberry is monumentally stupid (as is their counsel).

This very type of foolish stuff is what's going to help ye olde DFR suit. It is fun to watch, tho.

 

[cleardirect]

Nothing was cast aside as far as I have read. The america west pilot union leader sent a letter to USAPA shortly after the election results. Click here for the former america west alpa letter demanding their rights.

Imagine that. West pilots demanding our legal rights be represented by usapa. What have you read that tells you that section 6 is being pursued? Cast aside, tabled, shelved, ignored, overlooked, disregarded. Read any of these terms in regard to west section 6.

After the letter was sent in the same america west leadership launched an illegal, criminal and unprofessional campaign to destroy the new union. USAPA vs awappa

The federal court disagreed with you and usapa on that point. The malicious suit was dismissed with prejudice. The dismissal is listed in the litigation library July 11, 2008 Docket 97. It’s there read it or post that sometime. You always leave that one off. Please try and keep up. Things move pretty fast hard. It has only been 6 months since that happened.

The rico part of this suit was dismissed but the remainder is still being litigated because of the tremendous damage done to USAPA.

Close but not exactly accurate. Yes the federal RICO was dismissed with prejudice. The other 11 charges were pitched with those federal charges. The “remainderâ€￾ is not being litigated. If you have paperwork filed on those other charges please post them. But you are incorrect. Usapa has appealed the federal charges only. There was not “tremendous damageâ€￾ done to usapa. Again any evidence of the damage? What harm was caused by some web posts on a private board far away from the delicate usapa ego? You made the charge what was the damage? The only damage was to their delicate egos and the west pilots.

They were demanding USAPA to represent them, but at the same time america west pilots were refusing to join or support them and worse, attempting to impair their ability to function.The allegations of conduct by america west pilots.

Yes as is our right to be represented. Usapa is the legal bargaining agent. They campaigned, they convinced the NMB that we were a single carrier. With that election came all of the responsibilities. Individual pilots have very few responsibilities. We are not required to join or support usapa. It is our right to legally dissent against usapa. But they must still represent each individual fairly. Hence the term DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION. Usapa has to represent everyone member or not, supporter or dissenter.

You posted old news again. Look at the library. June 16 docket 39 AMENDED complaint. Please try and post the most current information.

I hope this explains the delay in the section 6 negotiations jim.

Malicious RICO charges have nothing to do with usapa scraping the west section 6 negotiations. That was dismissed in July. Why has usapa not been in section 6 for the west since then?

 

[Elevation]

All this fun back and forth while SWA gets a new contract with a nice raise and increased retirement benefits. The US Airways Pilots & FA's are held hostage by Parker and USAPA (both enjoying the subtle pleasure in the stalemate for different reasons). There is no new contract on the horizon...only repression and depression. Happy New Year union workers.