US Pilots Labor Thread 1/28 to 2/3

[Eastisleast]

The above posts are examples why the two most successful airlines for the past twenty years have been American Airlines and Southwest Airlines.

The reason for this is because neither of these airlines belong to the Airline Pilots Association, otherwise known as ALPA.

The pilots of American and Southwest have always had a rigid line to wait in to progress.

Why don't you go work for one of those airlines then??

 

[nostradamus]

Comparing the U to two more successful carriers(w/o 2 Bks and a much larger PAX base) is misleading.

Perhaps apples vs. kumquats is a better analogy for your fruit based system.

Alaska would seem to be a better comparison.

You know- somewhat reginal etc... wait they do not have the superior east network-how did they avoid all the BKs that we have experienced?

Somebody did us wrong...over and over and over and over...again.

I do not post on the flight attendant threads because I have no knowledge or understanding of their predicament.

 

[Atlantic]

Some of us have been here long enough to remember the Trans World / Osark merg.
Both ALPA members, at a time when DOH was in ALPA's bylaws. It never happened, for what ever reasons. So what ever is, is not allways is.
A ray of hope is that a pilot from PHX has steped up to represent those pilots within USAPA.
May be window dressing, but at least its a step.

 

[Freighterguynow]

That would probably make the most senior pilot on the list a former Shuttle pilot that was hired by Eastern Airlines in 1973 Numero Uno.

US Airways did not merge with Eastern.

 

[Furlough Fodder]

I do not post on the flight attendant threads because I have no knowledge or understanding of their predicament.

"Comparing the U to two more successful carriers(w/o 2 Bks and a much larger PAX base) is misleading."

Ok, now I said it.

How are you going to dismiss this now?

By claiming my non-active status means that I don't know the pilot predicament?

 

[N924PS]

The above posts are examples why the two most successful airlines for the past twenty years have been American Airlines and Southwest Airlines.

The reason for this is because neither of these airlines belong to the Airline Pilots Association, otherwise known as ALPA.

The pilots of American and Southwest have always had a rigid line to wait in to progress.

Care to remind us what the APA and SWPA pilots did to their brother and sister pilots from Air Cal, Reno Air, TWA, and Morris Air when it came time to integrate them?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I do not post on the flight attendant threads because I have no knowledge or understanding of their predicament.

When you become the moderator then you can tell me where to post.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Just curious if anyone involved in this charming debate bothered to look at the latest financials?

Anyone notice just how fast they deteriorated?

Two more quarters of $200 million plus loses and a soft market and the clock gets rolled back to '03 - '05 and DOH may well turn out to be DOT (Date of Termination)

I might be a bit premature to sound the alarm however the numbers are not good and prospects for improvement near term are equally dismal.

Things that occured to me:

• That agreeing to the Nicolau Award might be better then no job at all.
• By bickering instead of uniting you lost your window of opportunity to get significant improvements in your contract
• Maintaining Status quo raises costs and places your job in greater peril

Piney

The company has already realized most of the synergies they were seeking from the merger. An industry standard contract would cost them considerably more than the cost of maintaining status quo.

Management has more reasons to delay in getting a contract with us than they have to ink a contract now - it seems to me.

They will wait for a court decision on the DFR lawsuit (from the west), and then they will wait until we enter Section 6 status in 2010.

The Nic will be decided in the courts. The bickering you see here and elsewhere is just background noise. I engage in it myself, but it has no bearing on the outcome.

 

[N924PS]

Great post 1984!

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[nostradamus]

Just curious if anyone involved in this charming debate bothered to look at the latest financials?

Anyone notice just how fast they deteriorated?

Two more quarters of $200 million plus loses and a soft market and the clock gets rolled back to '03 - '05 and DOH may well turn out to be DOT (Date of Termination)

I might be a bit premature to sound the alarm however the numbers are not good and prospects for improvement near term are equally dismal.

Things that occured to me:

• That agreeing to the Nicolau Award might be better then no job at all.
• By bickering instead of uniting you lost your window of opportunity to get significant improvements in your contract
• Maintaining Status quo raises costs and places your job in greater peril

Usairways was able to survive the paralyzing ffocus boycot, they are just trying to get back up on their feet after that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Things that occured to me:

• That agreeing to the Nicolau Award might be better then no job at all.
• By bickering instead of uniting you lost your window of opportunity to get significant improvements in your contract
• Maintaining Status quo raises costs and places your job in greater peril

Parker stated (and it's on video) that a combined pilot contract was only worth about $10 million/year to the company.

Given that comparatively paltry sum, have you really concluded that accepting the Nicolau award will magically save the company and turn red ink into black? How absurd is that?

 

[ClueByFour]

The pilots of American and Southwest have always had a rigid line to wait in to progress.

False. Just ask the TWA pilots. You will note that they did not get DOH.

 

[cleardirect]

It appears that the frustration is growing in the east.

The comments are getting more shrill and less cognizant. No information, just accusations and denial.

 

[Megasnoop]

Great post 1984!

That's it in a nutshell.

Mega-dittos from the megasnoop on 1984s post. In 2007 company and ALPO agreed that only about $25-35 Million additional in synergies per year by single operation. Parity for the East is additional $100M. No wonder Parkers in no hurry to put this together. We can file Section 6 in June 2009. snap-back in Jan 2010, my guess costs Parker additional $120M or so a year. two $35M payments in 2011 and 2012, if we last that long. Again, this DOH/NIC thing is going to play out in the courts. 1984s right, its all noise on the chat board. No revelation smoking gun here thats going to turn the court case. note all the west hype of last November is fading as are the counts, especially the ones in state court that have been thrown out. USAPA knows the significance of the recent court rulings and the change in tone, but doesnt see any upside in flaunting it. Again, this will play out in court, not media.

For the record on termination notices, just checked with my BPR, he thinks over 90 have already gone out. Will get back to me after tomorrows BPR meeting. USAPA has worked out back payment schedules with anyone who wants to get current, whether they join or not. We dont want anyone fired, just compliance with basic agency shop rules. Im sure 3 have gone out to females. but can anyone blame usapa for starting with the 2 biggest mouths? Clear has no idea who gets letters. he makes up "facts" and tries to weave stories around them. He loves throwing out legalese smoke screens and tying together unrelated or dated info into his conspiracy fantasies.

Piney, I think we did a lot better than others, especially UAL. You dont have to outrun the bear, just outrun the other guy. The bear will take the slowest. Ive still never figured out your interest in any of this.

Things that occured to me: That agreeing to the Nicolau Award might be better then no job at all.

Or agreeing to DOH might be better then no job at all. I think you overstate the clout of this and other blogs. This intramural war will be resolved in the courts. I think weve pretty much put to rest any notion that the status quo is costing the company money. Its saving them a fortune. But even if we were 100% united (E&W), until we got the Sect 6 800-lb gorilla in the room, the company isnt going to need to nogotiate. Even then, I dont see too much progress. The economy is in the tank (THANKS, GEORGE W!). snooper

 

[sharktooth]

False. Just ask the TWA pilots. You will note that they did not get DOH.

I believe they did, as long as they stayed in STL, the domicile. I think TWA pilots also got to "buy" into a part of the AA pilots retirement plan.