US Pilots Labor Thread 1/28 to 2/3

[Megasnoop]

Here are the facts. 4 letters came to the west a couple of months ago...Recently 6 more letters came to the west. Of those 6 one that I know of went to a woman. That would be found in court to be a violation and discriminatory. So what is it? Are you making things up or is USAPA lying about these being random? That women have be selected to silence their dissention? Is that a how dictatorship do it? No free speech, no counter ideas, accept the party line or be punished.

Then have them sue us, Clear. Prove some kind of discrimination. Make our day. See if we care. BTW, you cant be fighting the party line if your not in the party. It was only my opinion that those first letters went to the biggest mouths, but I hope it was so. thats my opinion and I dont hold any union office. I do remember one of your pilots claim he/she would never pay dues or join. Funny, but that bluff didnt last past a threat of termination. as far as the rest of the letters, you dont know how many have been sent out already and to who, now do you? One more thing, there been a lot more than 10 letters sent out. S

 

[cleardirect]

Assorted west pilots are the only ones holding the "Nic" as legitimate.

A federal judge just may agree with us too. I believe that trumps everyone’s opinion. Making it legitimate.

Nicolau may well be a senile old man. What, exactly, does that have to do with his "reputation" for, I presume you mean, his arbitration skills?

I did not bring up Nicolau’s reputation that was NYCbusdriver. His post. Questioning his reputation or as he said what was left of it. Go question bus driver.

And this is where the federal judge in New York will weigh in on the "list," and possibly the arbitrator's methods, rationale and decisions. The arbitrator will remain personally unscathed (except for what little remains of his reputation.) However, as the west loves to point out, don't underestimate the power of a federal judge.

You may need help with your reading skillz. I said the "information" presented to Nicolau, was conditional and depends on legal outcomes. Please read and comprehend. I will add, now that you bring it up, that the "likely" false information may make his "ruling" incorrect.

OK! Likely false information and may are a long way from “The information presented to him has been proved wrong time and again, from an "east list" that contained conditional information,â€￾

One is a definitive statement. The other is conditional. That is was my point prove your case or do not make hard line statements.

BTW, no comment about Barbell?

What would you like me to say? I did not bring up the who bought who thing. That was you. What does your little gem of truth do for your argument? How about posting it for the world to see. Not that it matters but you brought it up. Read the 2005 annual report. Any comment? Something about a reverse acquisition. Get back to me on that.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Here are the facts. 4 letters came to the west a couple of months ago. Of those four, two were sent to women. Recently 6 more letters came to the west. Of those 6 one that I know of went to a woman. Doing the math that is ten letters total to the west, Three have gone to women. 30% of the current letters have attacked women. Not diluted. What am I changing my point to? My post said that USAPA has unfairly attacked a disproportionate amount of women. That was the point that still is my point.

Your information of "Facts" in incorrect.

 

[sharktooth]

A federal judge just may agree with us too. I believe that trumps everyone’s opinion. Making it legitimate.

and I believe I will win the lottery, um, in the future, sometime.

I did not bring up Nicolau’s reputation that was NYCbusdriver. His post. Questioning his reputation or as he said what was left of it. Go question bus driver.

But you repeated it, without attribution, and, still, you missed the point. Reputation and skill-set are two different things. You tried to say they are the same.

OK! Likely false information and may are a long way from “The information presented to him has been proved wrong time and again, from an "east list" that contained conditional information,â€￾

One is a definitive statement. The other is conditional. That is was my point prove your case or do not make hard line statements.

The point is, the information Nicolau used was conditional. That would make any premature ruling subject to criticism and, likely, be overturned.

What would you like me to say? I did not bring up the who bought who thing. That was you. What does your little gem of truth do for your argument? How about posting it for the world to see. Not that it matters but you brought it up. Read the 2005 annual report. Any comment? Something about a reverse acquisition. Get back to me on that.

Actually, it was you who referenced that A&W "bought" US.
Warren told me that the annual/quarterly reports have devolved into marketing tools. I know for a fact that his office does a lot more research than simply reading such. Did you look into Barbell at all? Nope? Enough said.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The NY judge is going to be very careful about poking around in the rational and methods of how the list was constructed.

No doubt he's shaking in his boots now that word is out about your warning to him.

That you would actually think that this single case in a long and distinguished career would diminish his reputation.

No. I don't think this single case determines Nicolau's reputation. Maybe the fact that the NFL booted his butt off their approved arbitrators' list years before might also have some bearing on it.

 

[cleardirect]

Your information of "Facts" in incorrect.

If you know. Please correct my error. Tell us the "facts" as you know them.

 

[cleardirect]

No doubt he's shaking in his boots now that word is out about your warning to him.

I was not warning anyone of anything. How do you get a warning from that statement. I said that a judge is going to be careful. I did not say that they should be careful, that he had better be careful, no warning involved.

Just a fact. Judges are very deferential to other judges rulings. Might what to check on the stats for appeals.

No. I don't think this single case determines Nicolau's reputation. Maybe the fact that the NFL booted his butt off their approved arbitrators' list years before might also have some bearing on it.

Well my bad. I guess that the east MC/MEC should have picked a more reputable arbitrator. If his reputation was so in dispute. Why exactly did you guy chose Nicolau? Because he did such a great job the last time you used him. No not happy with that one either. What was it? Oh yeah the east thought that he owned you guys one. Well maybe next time.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I guess that the east MC/MEC should have picked a more reputable arbitrator. If his reputation was so in dispute. Why exactly did you guy chose Nicolau? Because he did such a great job the last time you used him. No not happy with that one either. What was it? Oh yeah the east thought that he owned you guys one. Well maybe next time.

We can certainly agree on that...the east should have picked a better arbitrator.

The morons on the east merger committee thought Nicolau was a great choice because, and I'm paraphrasing one of them here, "we already have a good working relationship with him from the shuttle merger."

How stupid is THAT for a reason to choose him? One party to the process should never feel they have a "good working relationship" with any arbitrator. In fact, if those morons on that committee had stopped to think for just a second how Nicolau actually put the US and Shuttle lists together, they should have struck him in the first round.

As soon as it was announced that Nicolau was to be the arbitrator, I predicted fairly accurately to anyone who would listen just how that list would end up being merged. It mirrors almost perfectly Nicolau's rationale in the shuttle merger (notwithstanding what I feel was his biggest error in his treatment of the MDA pilots as furloughed.)

Along with most all of the east MEC, though, many of the committees were smugly confident that they could do no wrong, The merger committee was about the most guilty of this arrogant attitude. Listening to their presentations at LEC meetings made me sick seeing their misplaced confidence and haughty attitudes. This was pervasive throughout the east ALPA structure (and I'll bet the west felt the same way about their ALPA cronies...since the west, too, attempted to dump ALPA.)

Arrogance and disdain for the line pilot was a cancer that grew in ALPA over the decades. It was no longer about what's best for the pilot, but about what is best for ALPA, the ALPA favorite pilot groups and protecting their do-nothing jobs.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

We can certainly agree on that...the east should have picked a better arbitrator.

The morons on the east merger committee thought Nicolau was a great choice because, and I'm paraphrasing one of them here, "we already have a good working relationship with him from the shuttle merger."

How stupid is THAT for a reason to choose him? One party to the process should never feel they have a "good working relationship" with any arbitrator. In fact, if those morons on that committee had stopped to think for just a second how Nicolau actually put the US and Shuttle lists together, they should have struck him in the first round.

As soon as it was announced that Nicolau was to be the arbitrator, I predicted fairly accurately to anyone who would listen just how that list would end up being merged. It mirrors almost perfectly Nicolau's rationale in the shuttle merger (notwithstanding what I feel was his biggest error in his treatment of the MDA pilots as furloughed.)

Along with most all of the east MEC, though, many of the committees were smugly confident that they could do no wrong, The merger committee was about the most guilty of this arrogant attitude. Listening to their presentations at LEC meetings made me sick seeing their misplaced confidence and haughty attitudes. This was pervasive throughout the east ALPA structure (and I'll bet the west felt the same way about their ALPA cronies...since the west, too, attempted to dump ALPA.)

>>>>snip

An interesting take on the former east ALPA merger committee. Weren't they pretty much target fixated on.....DOH? Even when they were warned by Nicolau that this method was a non-starter in the seniority integration process?

And yet now we have a WHOLE UNION formed on the premise of DOH.

The entire West group agrees wholeheartedly with your assessment of the east merger committee: morons, stupid, smug, haughty, and arrogant are appropriate descriptors (your words, not mine).

And now there is this new union. One which pretty much parrots the overall attitude of the former east merger committee with it's actions. And many of those former ALPA folks have positions of authority there at usapa.

The east has a serious sickness; a contagious infection - one that has not been cured by changing the name, or the faces of the union.




You brought in new management to an old restaurant, employed new waiters, got new dishes. The food still sucks.

 

[N924PS]

How quickly you forget.

The Merger Committee was merely executing the will of the East pilot group. DOH is unity and unity is DOH. I don't believe any arbitrator, including Nicolau, would have rendered an order that was contrary to ALPA merger policy, or fairness for that matter.

Your perception of the Merger Committee's arrogance is misplaced. The committee mirrored the will of the East pilot group, nothing more nothing less.

ALPA would still be here today absent the Nicolau Award.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The Merger Committee was merely executing the will of the East pilot group.

True, although it took time and the threat of recall before the MC arrived at that position.

The MC warned the East pilot group that DOH was an untenable position and that protecting the widebody flying and attrition-based movement was the best route to follow. The pilot group didn't like that message and insisted that DOH was the only acceptable outcome.

The MC didn't have target fixation - the pilot group pointed them at the DOH target with all controls frozen.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

How quickly you forget.

The Merger Committee was merely executing the will of the East pilot group. DOH is unity and unity is DOH. I don't believe any arbitrator, including Nicolau, would have rendered an order that was contrary to ALPA merger policy, or fairness for that matter.

Your perception of the Merger Committee's arrogance is misplaced. The committee mirrored the will of the East pilot group, nothing more nothing less.

ALPA would still be here today absent the Nicolau Award.

You are a Usairways pilot that came from PSA airlines with your date of hire, because of the will of the East pilots.

 

[BoeingBoy]

because of the will of the East pilots.

And we know that all that matters is the will of the East pilots...

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

True, although it took time and the threat of recall before the MC arrived at that position.

The MC warned the East pilot group that DOH was an untenable position and that protecting the widebody flying and attrition-based movement was the best route to follow. The pilot group didn't like that message and insisted that DOH was the only acceptable outcome.

The MC didn't have target fixation - the pilot group pointed them at the DOH target with all controls frozen.

Jim

Your statements are not correct. You are providing misinformation. Get a life.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Your statements are not correct. You are providing misinformation. Get a life.

Is that you on the right, nosty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJJA1vvMc4I