US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Pi brat]

Are you telling me that the letter the company is sending the West furloughees tells them that if they recall east their West senioity is voided or surrendered.

Man, if they sent that letter out it is game over. The Addington class has the proof of company collusion with the seniority theiving usapa, and Polsinelli will make hundreds of millions.

What is their west seniority on an east airplane? How were the east pilots that recalled west handled for seniority purposes?

I think they can bypass the E190 without giving up recall rights and I can't see a west pilot going to PHL for E190 rates. Hopefully they will be recalled west and it won't be an issue.

 

[767jetz]

This pilot group has sacrificed more than any other pilot group in the history of aviation to save their jobs. So where is the payback? The Nicolau Award? No, but it is a sad fact of life that we need to move beyond so we can stop committing economic suicide.

Regardless of this person's motivation, I think this is where he hits the nail on the head.

I have no idea who LS has been flying with, but I assure you NONE of the guys I'm flying with feel this way.

Perhaps none of the guys you fly with. Or there's the possibility that some people placate others to avoid an uncomfortable cockpit for 4 days. It's just like when an unpopular contract or person is voted in by 85% of the votes cast, yet you can never seem to talk to one person who voted in favor. Whatever the case, I'm sure there are some (an undetermined number) of east pilots who no longer want to commit "economic suicide." Combine them with 100% of the west and you may very well have a number approaching 51%.

 

[767jetz]

I think Lance is out for himself, as always. While I see some chinks in USAPA's armor, I'd not take Lance's word for how widespread it is. What I find the most ironic in his missive is the mention of FPL abuse - Lance fed at that gravy train as much or more than anyone when he was on the LEC/MEC.

Jim

Jim, this is why you are one of the most respected voices around here. You call 'em like you see 'em, even when it doesn't support your personal opinions. Thanks for your continued frankness.

If you say he has ulterior motives I believe you. But regardless of what motivates him, I can't help but see some truth in what he writes.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Jim, this is why you are one of the most respected voices around here. You call 'em like you see 'em, even when it doesn't support your personal opinions. Thanks for your continued frankness.

If you say he has ulterior motives I believe you. But regardless of what motivates him, I can't help but see some truth in what he writes.

Here is that 85% thing! MM! JETZ u rock!" I can't help but see the truth" only you JETZ only you!

MODERATOR COMMENT- HERE IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW TO GET SUSPENDED...

 

[nic4us]

What is their west seniority on an east airplane? How were the east pilots that recalled west handled for seniority purposes?

I think they can bypass the E190 without giving up recall rights and I can't see a west pilot going to PHL for E190 rates. Hopefully they will be recalled west and it won't be an issue.

This is such a huge can of worms, the issues involved are almost endless.

The east furloughed pilots that recalled to the West were placed at the bottom of the West list, they then had new hires added below them on the West list. They were subsequently allowed to transfer east, when they were furloughed from the West.

Simultaneously, the east brought back all their furloughs, then added new hires.

The company blatantly disregarded the third list criteria of the TA, awarding new hires seniority over current employees.

Further, there are more twist and turns when you consider the furloughed AAA pilots pre-merger, who were hired at AWA, but had recall rights to AAA that they surrendered after the Nic was published.

There are soooo many screw ups going on over this, that is why I predicted the company will recall all the West furloughees to the West prior to hiring again on the east.

The solution is actually very easy, and was first published in May 2007.

 

[nic4us]

Jim, this is why you are one of the most respected voices around here. You call 'em like you see 'em, even when it doesn't support your personal opinions. Thanks for your continued frankness.

If you say he has ulterior motives I believe you. But regardless of what motivates him, I can't help but see some truth in what he writes.

The thing is, he is writing for the east audience.

The fact of the matter is that West pilots are encountering east pilots on a daily basis that want this to end and they realize the only way that will happen is with the Nic.

I fail to see what is so absurd about individuals coming to the realization that usapa is not going to be able to deliver on their promises. That is far more believable than the promises usapa made in the first place.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Despair - by Former ALPA CLT LEC F/O Rep. Lance Svendsen
Forwarded With Author's Permission

Lance Svendsen. Now here's a guy who SINGLE-HANDEDLY might have been able to keep ALPA on the property.

For those who don't know the history, during the period of the balloting for USAPA, Lance Svendsen was the CLT F/O LEC rep. He and the captain rep were, per ALPA procedure, issued a valid notification of a recall election to remove them from office. They used every trick in the book to avoid ever having to face that recall. Had they had the cojones to just face it (they may have survived it given the makeup of the pilots in CLT.) But no, they resisted facing a recall through nefarious means.

This (along with the other contemporaneous shenanigans) pissed off enough of the east "fence sitters" that USAPA won the election by a margin that may well have gone the other way had Lance faced the music.

What a piece of work! And now he has the gall to weigh in on these matters this way.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think that has already been decided, all east furloughs come back, then any positions offered west, then hire. At least that's what I understood.

As it should be.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The thing is, he is writing for the east audience.

The fact of the matter is that West pilots are encountering east pilots on a daily basis that want this to end and they realize the only way that will happen is with the Nic.

I fail to see what is so absurd about individuals coming to the realization that usapa is not going to be able to deliver on their promises. That is far more believable than the promises usapa made in the first place.

I guess they are encountering more EAST pilots is because they are doing more EAST flying ,(revenue out east for a failing system go figure), he is writing for an EAST audience( yo dude he was in the CLT crewroom ex-ALPO rep yea you go girl) And how about the ALPA DREAM( a novel by STEVEN KING), your belief's (DREAMS are free MARTY AINT) MM!

 

[Suge Knight]

looks as if it's going to pay off in november for all the guys that bypassed the 190.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

looks as if it's going to pay off in november for all the guys that bypassed the 190.

YES it does good call! MM! It must be that company collusion thing, that is very laughable! MM!

 

[Phoenix]

Despair - by Former ALPA CLT LEC F/O Rep. Lance Svendsen
Forwarded With Author's Permission

Gentlemen,

The majority of pilots I fly with and talk with are now resigned to the fact we will never get a new contract. They think that is their lot in life and there is nothing they can do about it. Despair is rampant.

Most have also figured out that the Nicolau Award is not, nor will it ever, go away.

Most have also figured out that USAPA’s promises will never be realized, making the whole move to USAPA a counterproductive mistake. I am also starting to notice a little push back towards USAPA as more and more pilots are realizing they were duped. Where is my Date of Hire contract in 90 days?

USAPA has become everything the pilots who voted for USAPA wanted to eliminate. The gravy train, flight pay loss abuse, special treatment, in fighting, recalls, greedy lawyers, fancy hotels, and worst of all, a dictatorship Adolf Hitler would be proud of. The problem is they took the biggest abusers at ALPA and gave them their own union, without any adult supervision.

Most have also figured out Lee Seham has received millions of our dollars on a wild goose chase that he knew was a wild goose chase from the beginning. He will continue to chase that goose as long as we pay him to do so, and laugh all the way to the bank as he did at other labor groups until they fired him.

I sat quietly yesterday in the crew room and listened to a USAPA dignitary discuss our current issues with about five pilots. Nothing, and I say again, nothing he said was true, and nothing he predicted was a realistic outcome. USAPA has not negotiated with the company since they came into existence and now they are doing everything in their power to delay their inevitable failure to keep their gravy train at TOGA THRUST.

How long are you guys going to listen to their lies, and how long are you going to be cowered into submission?

It’s time for all of us to stand up and tell the King he has no clothes!

It’s time to realize that when USAPA was elected to force the East will on the West by majority rule, the East sealed their fate. A fate that makes the Nicolau Award the new seniority list, without conditions and restrictions. Like it or not, it is what it is.

This pilot group has sacrificed more than any other pilot group in the history of aviation to save their jobs. So where is the payback? The Nicolau Award? No, but it is a sad fact of life that we need to move beyond so we can stop committing economic suicide. I did everything in my power to eliminate, modify, or put fences around the award but failed. It’s time to move on.

Gentlemen, we deserve a new contract. We earned it. Isn’t it time we got one?

Still looking for the Pony,

Lance Svendsen

Lance has a singular personality and character that can boil an East pilot's blood to the point that they post exactly what they are really thinking and end up being permanently cast off this forum for excessive foul language and personal attacks... even if they were all true.

The righteous indignation that he engenders across the pilot force is such a wonderful thing.. it fueled the ousting of ALPA.. and it is so refreshing to see that everything we observed about him was true, and that he is proudly still the same.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Lance has a singular personality and character that can boil an East pilot's blood to the point that they post exactly what they are really thinking and end up being permanently cast off this forum for excessive foul language and personal attacks... even if they were all true.

The righteous indignation that he engenders across the pilot force is such a wonderful thing.. it fueled the ousting of ALPA.. and it is so refreshing to see that everything we observed about him was true, and that he is proudly still the same.

That quiet sit in the CLT crewroom, sounds like "OUTCAST" to me ! MM!

 

[767jetz]

When an unpopular contract or person is voted in by 85% of the votes cast? Man you gotta luv this guy! MM!

Perhaps I wasn't clear. My comment had nothing to do with a percent that a contract would pass. I wasn't implying anything from that number. I'm guessing this is what you are assuming. I was creating a generic example that many in this industry have seen... things voted in by a large majority, only never to find one person that says they voted for it. At UAL the ESOP was one example. Never flew with anyone who ever admitted to voting for the ESOP. I believe USAirways had a concessionary contract or two in your past that was voted in, yet no one claims to have voted for it. Obviously some people did in all of these examples. History is replete with other examples.

Hence my speculation that someone who claims never to have flown with anyone who agrees with Lance Svendsen, isn't necessarily taking the pulse of thousands of pilots. The only way to know for sure is to put something out for a vote.

 

[nic4us]

I guess they are encountering more EAST pilots is because they are doing more EAST flying ,(revenue out east for a failing system go figure), he is writing for an EAST audience( yo dude he was in the CLT crewroom ex-ALPO rep yea you go girl) And how about the ALPA DREAM( a novel by STEVEN KING), your belief's (DREAMS are free MARTY AINT) MM!

True Marty is not free, or cheap for that matter, get ready to pay the bill.

I do not know who this Lance guy is, or what his motivation is, but that letter was lifted off another web site. Here is the news flash, he is not alone. That is about the 10th such letter or encounter I have heard about in the last week.

Seems there are even east pilots contributing to AOL. Careful MM, that next captain you see sporting a badge backer might be an east pilot.

Do you know why usapa is going to lose their quest to steal the West's seniority? I will tell you. It is because the West always comes up with these really good catchphrases. "Save Dave", "Integrity Matters", "Seham is a Slimeball". Those are phrases that you just can't help get behind.