US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[psw737]

That would require responsible leadership in both management and the "union". Neither exists.

That is the whole point, scope isn't in the union agenda so who cares. Well, the sad thing is that I really don't think the majority of the pilots here really understand how detrimental the scope issues are to their career. All the seniority issues are specualtion until it is awarded one way or another. The scope problem is a big fact and should be front and center on usapa's agenda, you all want to talk about stealing jobs etc.... they were stolen by our express affiliates, wake up already!! This is why so many have been on the path to career fo. This place amazes me.

 

[psw737]

Excuse me. But you are kind of messing up your buddies argument that the Nicolau was unfair because it was a snap shot in time. That US Air was just having a “bad hair day” the day the PID was taken. Now you come in here and tell everyone US Air was on a 9 year slide losing more than half the airplanes.

You had better hurry and throw yourself at the feet of king cleary, kiss his ring and ask for forgiveness for dare speaking the truth.

Plus they accuse the west of having a weak scope clause. Now you say that Us Air gave away a bunch of flying to RJ. I see a reeducation camp in your future if you don’t get on the same page as the hardliners.

I
What the hell are you talking about? Who is my buddy that you refer to? Reeducation camp? Yeah, ok I'd like to see that happen!

 

[nic4us]

West pilots, you have to ask yourself. Did AOL promise you quick judicial response last January that promised damages and back pay since you were hired? Has this happened? No. Now they are asking for more of your money. Red flag.



Click here to keep giving Spartans

Did AOL promise back pay and damages since we were hired? um...No. Frankly I do not know what you are talking about. You seem to think that all the West pilots were hired on the day of the merger?

AOL has promised to defend the West pilots rights and the Nicolau seniority award. Have they done that? Unquestionably well would be the response you will get from all West pilots.

Did usapa promise DOH in exchange for offering a substandard cost neutral contract, yes, are the close to getting it, No. Did usapa promise a reduction in dues rates, yes, has that occurred, No, there has actually been an increase when you count the assessments. Did usapa write a C&BLs that were intrinsically discriminatory toward 35% of the pilot group, yes, have they been able to comply with their own C&BLs, No.

Pretty much looks like usapa is a complete failure at keeping promises. We all know where that trait comes from.

Thanks for posting the link to the AOL contributions page. Any publicity is good publicity, and all contributions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[biggie smalls]

Excuse me. But you are kind of messing up your buddies argument that the Nicolau was unfair because it was a snap shot in time. That US Air was just having a “bad hair day” the day the PID was taken. Now you come in here and tell everyone US Air was on a 9 year slide losing more than half the airplanes.

You had better hurry and throw yourself at the feet of king cleary, kiss his ring and ask for forgiveness for dare speaking the truth.

Plus they accuse the west of having a weak scope clause. Now you say that Us Air gave away a bunch of flying to RJ. I see a reeducation camp in your future if you don’t get on the same page as the hardliners.

It's disgusting when a captain at Republic makes more that a mainline captain on the bus. If we don't control scope it will cost all of us our jobs in the future.

 

[Suge Knight]

off topic..just passed thru CLT training center, and it looks like a 73/AB class in november...good news!

 

[biggie smalls]

off topic..just passed thru CLT training center, and it looks like a 73/AB class in november...good news!

Thank you, finally the company is accepting the fact that they are short on every equiptment type and acknowledged the fact that they have to continue run classes and eventually hire by the first quater next year.

 

[Hate2fly]

That is the whole point, scope isn't in the union agenda so who cares. Well, the sad thing is that I really don't think the majority of the pilots here really understand how detrimental the scope issues are to their career. All the seniority issues are specualtion until it is awarded one way or another. The scope problem is a big fact and should be front and center on usapa's agenda, you all want to talk about stealing jobs etc.... they were stolen by our express affiliates, wake up already!! This is why so many have been on the path to career fo. This place amazes me.

psw737,

I went to the NAC informational meeting in PHL the other day. I asked Paul D. about Section 1 Scope....he understands the issues quite well by the way. I asked him about min. block hours and min. fleet and he said they have not even gotten that far yet with the company. He said it will be a 3 leg stool. Scope/Min. Block hours/Min. Fleet will be in the new contract when it happens. As far as understanding how important scope is.............all 3 east NAC members have been furloughed.

Hate

 

[Freebird]

Love your avatar, loathe your POV

Thanks. And Thanks. I'll take them both as a compliment.

I'd guess you loathe my POV because you support stealing jobs? Or is it because you dont care to Honor the Binding Arbitration and would rather waste dues money on a "Fools-gold" standard?

Usapa = Yes, we're paid less than Spirit, jetBlue and just about EVERYone else...Whats-it-tooya?

 

[Suge Knight]

psw737,

I went to the NAC informational meeting in PHL the other day. I asked Paul D. about Section 1 Scope....he understands the issues quite well by the way. I asked him about min. block hours and min. fleet and he said they have not even gotten that far yet with the company. He said it will be a 3 leg stool. Scope/Min. Block hours/Min. Fleet will be in the new contract when it happens. As far as understanding how important scope is.............all 3 east NAC members have been furloughed.

Hate

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100827-706936.html

 

[psw737]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100827-706936.html

This is a big sticking point over there. I think at Continental their contract keeps everything under 76 seats and theiy only allow the turboprop. Where at United I think they are kind of getting to the same situation we have here, they are down to about 360 airframes and the express operation is operating a larger percentage of flights than the mainline operation. I wish them success!

 

[john john]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100827-706936.html

HOUSTON (Dow Jones)-Pilots at Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL) and UAL Corp.'s (UAUA) United Airlines want to end outsourcing of flying to regional partners following their planned merger, a move likely to shake up the industry's already turbulent labor relations.


That just puts the fee for service contract carriers up for lower bids
US management will love it

 

[Freighterguynow]

off topic..just passed thru CLT training center, and it looks like a 73/AB class in november...good news!

The only recall vacancies are for E-190 F/O's .

 

[767jetz]

This is a big sticking point over there. I think at Continental their contract keeps everything under 76 seats and theiy only allow the turboprop. Where at United I think they are kind of getting to the same situation we have here, they are down to about 360 airframes and the express operation is operating a larger percentage of flights than the mainline operation. I wish them success!

UA pilots lost big time in the scope area during bankruptcy. Continental is only allowed to outsource 50 seat RJ's. UA allows 70 seaters with some restrictions. It will be interesting to see how ALPA addresses this. I doubt UA will suddenly adopt CO's limits and get rid of all 70 seat contract flying. My guess is they will be allowed to keep a certain number, but scale it back over several years.

And it's not just domestic regional traffic that is the problem. International code shares attack the top end of our flying. UA's Air Lingus deal is directly in the crosshairs. With that deal, both companies started a new alter ego using AirLingus aircraft, but not crews. They were going to hire off the street and fly in and out of IAD. Pilots were at least able to secure those jobs for AirLingus crews only, but operating on a separate, cheaper contract. Unfortunately this was allowed by their scope language. ALPA is trying to secure legislation saying that companies like UA can only share revenue on such flight at the percent that they actually have "metal in the market." If they want 50% of the revenue on these routes they need to keep 50% of the flying.

Folks, everyone has to start thinking globally and not just regionally. This outsourcing is a cancer to our industry.

PS, on an unrelated note, for all the skeptics, the DOJ just approved the UA/CO merger, clearing the biggest hurdle. Only 18 city pair slots had to be given to SWA as part of the deal. The last remaining hurdle is the shareholder vote set for September 17th.

 

[nic4us]

The only recall vacancies are for E-190 F/O's .

I am too lazy to go look it up on wings. How many are you recalling on the east?

The west is recalling 40, there is a sept 6 class, but I do not know how many are in it. We are running a vacany/reduction bid, losing 8 737 capt and 8 737 f/os, but gaining 13 757 capt and 15 757 f/os and 15 a320 capts and 13 a320 f/os, for a net gain of 20 captain seats.

 

[notsofast]

I am too lazy to go look it up on wings. How many are you recalling on the east?

The west is recalling 40, there is a sept 6 class, but I do not know how many are in it. We are running a vacany/reduction bid, losing 8 737 capt and 8 737 f/os, but gaining 13 757 capt and 15 757 f/os and 15 a320 capts and 13 a320 f/os, for a net gain of 20 captain seats.

Mr Kirby quote at PHX pilot meeting. "you are flying 24 percent of the Easts routes."