US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/25- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Exactly how long have you been an FO?

Your lapdog comments are hilarious. Focus on the facts and you will find your answer.

Tread lightly my friend...


Usapa = We hold the record for AFO's

Reserve E-190 F/o and proud of it, OH I have the facts, OHHH that update! What a joke! MM! What are you going to do sing us into submission, " Whew I am spending my life away , looking for an entitlement payday! DONATE PLEEZ!MM!

 

[Freebird]

I'll agree with you that ALPA failed everyone. However, your MAIN MOTIVATION was to circumvent the Nic. Anything else you state is total B.S.

You agreed to a process. You agreed to live with the results. You are now trying to find a way out, to help YOUR career, selfishly.


Usapa = We really dont know what we're doing. You decide. (oh that's right, we wont let you!)

I'll re-post this to get the Truth out.



USAPA = Spirit makes how much?

 

[Freebird]

The Nic was the final straw, the reason I threw the match to the pile of straw. The entire mess got swept up in the flames, including the abortion Nic. Burn baby burn!

The fact of the matter is that you only have yourself to blame for the decisions you made. Running from the facts by changing your affiliations is rather cowardly.


USAPA = Quick, run, somebody turned on the lights

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Can we get another re-post because were not sure if it's the truth or you that somehow got out of well who knows where? MM!

 

[767jetz]

Reserve E-190 F/o and proud of it

That explains alot.

 

[767jetz]

The fact of the matter is that you only have yourself to blame for the decisions you made. Running from the facts by changing your affiliations is rather cowardly.

USAPA = Quick, run, somebody turned on the lights

They (those east pilots on this forum at least) will never get it. It is always someone else's fault. I have never seen a group with a bigger lack of accountability.

While I still believe that you will eventually be successful and Nic will survive the legal battles to come, what really stinks for you guys is the fact that you may miss the boat with the economic upturn. Even with the Nic, your collective window of opportunity for a decent contract is slipping away thanks to the actions of the east. I just found out that with the approval of the DOJ and with UA and CO's shareholder vote on September 17th, the company is moving their date up to finalize our merger from years end to the beginning of October. JCBA negotiations are steaming along at a record pace (to my surprise) and we may be voting on a new industry leading contract by October.

What you guys really need to do is start a grassroots effort to educate and organize the east (non-hardliners) as to what they are giving up in contract improvements with all the stonewalling. If their pay restoration does not materialize I think it will be your last hope for a contract sooner rather than 2 more years down the road.

Good luck to you all.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

They (those east pilots on this forum at least) will never get it. It is always someone else's fault. I have never seen a group with a bigger lack of accountability.

While I still believe that you will eventually be successful and Nic will survive the legal battles to come, what really stinks for you guys is the fact that you may miss the boat with the economic upturn. Even with the Nic, your collective window of opportunity for a decent contract is slipping away thanks to the actions of the east. I just found out that with the approval of the DOJ and with UA and CO's shareholder vote on September 17th, the company is moving their date up to finalize our merger from years end to the beginning of October. JCBA negotiations are steaming along at a record pace (to my surprise) and we may be voting on a new industry leading contract by October.

What you guys really need to do is start a grassroots effort to educate and organize the east (non-hardliners) as to what they are giving up in contract improvements with all the stonewalling. If their pay restoration does not materialize I think it will be your last hope for a contract sooner rather than 2 more years down the road.

Good luck to you all.

I think the grass has already been consummed by the WEST not to mention the roots and has already kicked in, but many thanx for the experienced advice you ole Munnstrodomus ! MM! PS EDUCATE and ORGANIZE the EAST, that would be USAPA! MM! ALL USAIRWAYS PILOTS!

 

[cleardirect]

Another lie. They did not say it was not YET ripe in the context that it was just a bomb waiting to go off and hurt USAPA. They said it might NEVER be ripe. Your statement implies the minute USAPA proposes a deal, it is unquestionably ripe. The west pilots failure to grasp what constitutes ripeness and damage is embarrassing. Keep saving your money and making the stupid badge backers. The badge backer proves there is a sucker born every minute, and there is a lawyer available to separate you from your cash, again.

Could I make a suggestion. Since you do not believe what a west guy has to say. Take a little of that big money you east guys make and hire a lawyer. Any lawyer of your choice and have him explain what the ninth circuit ruling means. Give him no background or bias just let him read it and explain it to you.

Then come back here and tell us what a second opinion says.

This is all the mandate says.

CONCLUSION
[10] For the foregoing reasons, we hold that Plaintiffs’ DFR claim is not ripe; therefore, the case is REMANDED to the district court with directions that the action be DISMISSED.
No costs to either side.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Could I make a suggestion. Since you do not believe what a west guy has to say. Take a little of that big money you east guys make and hire a lawyer. Any lawyer of your choice and have him explain what the ninth circuit ruling means. Give him no background or bias just let him read it and explain it to you.

Then come back here and tell us what a second opinion says.

This is all the mandate says.

Now c'mon clear or Multi Vision, second opinion says there were HUGE bartabs after WAKE, NO COST? Is the next round on you ? Sure it is! MM!

 

[nic4us]

Not outside common industry practice? Where else has a new hire been put ahead of somebody with even 15 years LOS. I call BS.

Call bs all you want, just do not try to tell it to a Reno pilot who was not put next to a new hire, but below not yet hires in the hiring pool at AMR. Do not mention it to a Morris pilot who had the same fate at SWA. The industry is replete with examples of stapling of seniority list, new hires above vetrans etc...

The fact is that each case turns on its own merit. In this case the merits dictated that a 17 year furloughee ended up below new hires who had a job. Beats the staple you could have been given and been within "industry practice".

Also, in the original law suit the east Mec claimed that "journeymen" 17 year pilots were slotted with "apprentice" new hires. An absolute falsehood. The fact of the matter is that the West new hires were I believe %100 "probationary" members, as they had all been ALPA members at prior carriers, including USAir.

 

[nic4us]

"Exactly two?" You forgot the big third one. The one where you elect a new representative entity that negotiates seniority. To use the former is to perpetuate the former. The former is gone.

There is no third method.

The newly elected representative entity now represents the same groups that entered into the arbitration.

They have what is called a Duty of Fair representation to those same groups. To forward the well documented proposal of one group to its great enrichment at the direct discriminatory expense of the second group would be considered by any jury as a failure of its DFR.

The former representative is gone, not those represented.

In essence, whether I am represented by ALPA or usapa, I still have a contract with you and the company that says we use the Nic. Either tries to weasel out, I sue.

 

[notsofast]

I just found out that with the approval of the DOJ and with UA and CO's shareholder vote on September 17th, the company is moving their date up to finalize our merger from years end to the beginning of October. JCBA negotiations are steaming along at a record pace (to my surprise) and we may be voting on a new industry leading contract by October.

I think you are giving the ALPA side of the spin. CAL pilots are not happy. SAVE CAL PILOTS WEBSITE

Say hi to Prater for me.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That explains alot.

Considering that remark, well you said it all! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

There is no third method.

The newly elected representative entity now represents the same groups that entered into the arbitration.

They have what is called a Duty of Fair representation to those same groups. To forward the well documented proposal of one group to its great enrichment at the direct discriminatory expense of the second group would be considered by any jury as a failure of its DFR.

The former representative is gone, not those represented.

In essence, whether I am represented by ALPA or usapa, I still have a contract with you and the company that says we use the Nic. Either tries to weasel out, I sue.

1 WORD "FRAGMENTATION" comimg to a theatre near you! Doug tried to sell it as a whole if AOL is correct the latter 24mos a parted out frame with no injunction, stay tuned ! MM! SUE who seperate ops? WILDER BLOG very correct, HEY DONATE AOL NEEDS MONEY!

 

[nic4us]

Here comes the re-write and the total lack of knowledge. Easy to make all these statements. Too bad the Ninth totally refutes it. Honestly, how can the west pilots be so naive that they forgot what actually came out of the Ninth? To make a statement such as this is a total denial of reality.

Remember well what the 9th said.

Also have a very good grasp on what they did not say. I can tell you they did not say anything close to what is in the recent PHL,CLT,DCA updates.

Further, my post you quoted was not so much about what the 9th said, but what the company believes. That is, they signed a contract, the contract said ALPA merger policy, that policy was followed, they accepted the award. They do not give a rats rear what usapa thinks the 9th said, because the one thing the 9th absolutely did not say was that the company was free to violate its contract with the West pilots. The company notes in its request that, indeed the 9th left it wide open for the West pilots to sue the living daylights out of usapa once the claim is "unquestionably ripe". The company, (i.e. the party with cash in the bank to lose ) wants absolutely no part of usapa's DOH seniority theft scandal, hence their exceedingly strenuous claim of nuetrality.

Get it yet? The company does, otherwise they would not have filed the request for declaratory judgement.

Say goodbye to DOH and usapa.