US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Pi brat]

I agree and won't argue that point, however his post made it sound like an East F/O with simply his system seniority number could walk in and "steal" a Captain position from a West pilot. It is a good deal more complicated than that but I will concede the point.

I understand how this works. I was a blockholding 727 Captain and went to a very junior 737 Captain reserve. I held my seat, but just barely. But it didn't happen over night and I wasn't immediately removed from my other left seat job. That is why I stated in the other post that you have to be VERY careful with conditions and restrictions. Unless they are solid, they won't hold up.

Jim did witness this process first hand, but it started with Colodny blowing his boys a kiss and allowing it. It is not something a pilot group could accomplish on it's own.

Thanks for the posts. I really do enjoy these discussions... 🙂

Driver B)

Okay, gotcha. I agree.

 

[Pi brat]

Don't lump me in with the DOH crowd. Never worn a USPA yellow lanyard, don't think DOH is fair to the West but that Nic is a nonstarter 2 years or 20.

Despite what the west thinks, I think this post sums up the way about 80--90% of east pilots feel.

 

[767jetz]

So this merger committee negotiates seniority from each airline. Is there a vote? Or what they say is the final result? And if no results what then arbitration
All sounds familiar

No there is no vote. The merger committees are not part of the MEC. They are selected from the pilot ranks and given autonomy. Since a JCBA is a prerequisite to starting negotiations between the merger committees, there is no road beyond a final and binding list. As soon as the JCBA is ratified a clock starts. Negotiate, mediate, and arbitrate if necessary. The JCBA stands ready to go into effect immediately upon seniority resolution, be it by mutual agreement or final and binding arbitration.

What got you guys was the fact that there was no JCBA to seal the deal. So you drift along endlessly under the Transition Agreement, LOA 93, etc. It is my understanding that the reason for this was that for LCC to emerge from BK II things had to be expedited before money ran out. A Transition Agreement was thrown together with the promise of a JCBA after the fact. Big Mistake. The company had no motivation to move things along, and just let you guys go at each other's throats for years on end. If you had furlough protections, base protections, flying protections, and aircraft protections, the company would not have been willing to let things sit for this long. They would have forked over large amounts of money to get the deal done so they can run their airline.

 

[informed]

What you brought to the merger - right? You guys love that one. Then, you get all heated when it comes winging back at ya.


The future of PHX looks, at best, grim. Once the TA goes away expect a 20% reduction maybe 50% if Captain Underpants was right. You had no expectation other than flying narrow bodies in and of PHX all day yet, NOW you insist on being able to bid East and take east jobs.

Another way of putting it - why would the East pilot group vote 'yes' to that? I suggest you put yourself in the position of an East pilot and start coming up with scenarios East pilots might actually be willing to pass membership ratification.

That, or get plenty comfortable out west. For now.

Having the PHX hub in the future, will not make economic sense. Southwest is well on their way to domination of that hub.

Southwest Airlines hub, PHX, with 177 daily departures makes it their fourth largest hub, with MDW, LAS and BWI as their top three. USAirways used to have an LAS hub.

 

[cubfan]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

 

[nic4us]

You had no expectation other than flying narrow bodies in and of PHX all day yet, NOW you insist on being able to bid East and take east jobs.

Another way of putting it - why would the East pilot group vote 'yes' to that? I suggest you put yourself in the position of an East pilot and start coming up with scenarios East pilots might actually be willing to pass membership ratification.

That, or get plenty comfortable out west. For now.

I am comfortable out West and have no desire to bid east. However, as I have pointed out before, under usapa's DOH plan, it would take almost 10 years for me to have the seniority to hold the system wide position in which I currently sit. Why 10 years? Because it is usapa's plan to allow every east pilot to have their turn with my job by placing them all senior to me, including numerous furloughed pilots with less LOS.

I get the east pilots perspective, and nothing I can say, do or offer would outweigh the promise usapa has made them. That being, vote for us and we will give you Nic4Us's job.

I am not willing to make you that offer, so don't vote for ratification, I really do not care. Actually I much prefer seperate ops with my status, than a joint contract that allows the usapa theft to take place. The problem for the east is they have to sit on LOA93 indefinitely, and that ain't part of their "master plan".

In the last 2 years I have put forth every thing I could come up with to make the Nic more palatable for the east. The problem is (at least on this board) almost all I get in response is, why would we do that when we can take your seniority and get a raise? Well the answere is, because that is not going to happen, you are not going to get DOH, eventually the Nic will be implemented, and since the east has pissed off the West beyond repair, there will be no modifications, no extra fences, no widebody protections, no overrides for long duration f/o's, no domicile protections, no bidding adjustments, nothing but the Nic, unmodified and to its terms.

 

[nic4us]

I have many new priorities.

Persue them with reckless abandon!

Good to hear from you, thanks for the update.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't lump me in with the DOH crowd. Never worn a USPA yellow lanyard, don't think DOH is fair to the West but that Nic is a nonstarter 2 years or 20.

But you do want DOH. You just think that there are some set of C&R that make DOH fair. But there is not a set of C&R that can make DOH fair for the west.

Why is it that you think Nicolau did not use DOH? Because he could not come up with anything to make DOH work.

In the end you all still want DOH. Just blunted with some small trinkets for the west. I don't see anyone saying the Nicolau with C&R. It is DOH with C&R.
(BTW the west would not accept NIC with C&R either)

The sad thing about all of this. You are are going to have the Nicolau in a contract that you could have had 3-4 years ago. What a waste.

 

[Pi brat]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

Hope you recover soon and your next battle goes well. You are in my prayers.

 

[cleardirect]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

Welcome back. Great to know that you will recover.

Help the healing process and stay off of here as much as possible. This is way to toxic.

 

[boeingplt]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

Don't get yourself worked up about the stuff on this forum. We will duke it out and you can come back after its settled. Get well

 

[Piedmont1984]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

Cubfan

Great to hear from you. Rest up, get strong and get well.

 

[luvthe9]

To all at Us Aviattion,

Cubfan is back from 86 days in the hospital, resting at home with family. My cancer treatment will begin later this year, after I get stronger. My spleen was removed on May 13 and caused many complications. I was put on life support for a while but came out ok. I haven't keep up with much, I have many new priorities. God bless you all and thanks for all your support.

OUTSTANDING, Gald to have you back buddy!!!!!! miss flying with you.

 

[Richard]

Cubfan,

The management and moderators wish you the best for a complete and speedy recovery, and we welcome you back!!

Best regards,

Richard
Lead Moderator

 

[cactusboy53]

Cubfan;
Welcome back. Like some of the others stated, do yourself a favor and stay off the boards for a while and allow your body to recover. God's Speed for a speedy recovery!!

CB