US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

The Desert Judge, End of an Era. Told to give it up, doesn't. This guy has no respect for the law. Those San Fran clerks have got to be peeing their pants over this guy.....

 

[cleardirect]

Thank goodness for membership ratification and a 2-1 majority because it'll be a cold day in heck before you ever get a chance to even think about bidding East.

And you guys can stay on LOA 93 until the same day.

Your seniority is for sale. You guys keep paying for it everyday. It is like the rent to own place. You guys keep paying the rent and eventually you end up paying way more than it was ever worth.

 

[Black Swan]

And you guys can stay on LOA 93 until the same day.

Your seniority is for sale. You guys keep paying for it everyday. It is like the rent to own place. You guys keep paying the rent and eventually you end up paying way more than it was ever worth.

Another example of how a certain group of airline pilots keep the bar lowered.We'll just go right around you like we always do. Change of Control, possible LOA 84 coming up fast. It ain't looking good for the west Clear..............On my overnights, I am going to have some tip cans made up for those American Pilots to drop some money in for AOL.

 

[luvthe9]

Were all waitng for the spin to begin, on how this a a major victory for the west!! Please tell us how were all screwed.

 

[Black Swan]

Were all waitng for the spin to begin, on how this a a major victory for the west!!

This is going to be classic. Obviously they haven't heard the news.........

 

[cleardirect]

Well it's finaly all over for the west, we have no more reason to discuss the Addington ordeal, game set and match. (that is unless the supreme court is not to busy. ) Let's all say it together DENIED.!!!!

It's funny you think that this is over.

All of the testimony, evidence is ready to go if usapa can ever get a contract passed. We still have the company law suit to get through.

All this does is remove any excuses that usapa has for not getting a contract. It is now time to see what usapa can do. Are they even capable of delivering a contract? 3 more sessions with the NMB to the end of the year. Anyone think usapa can finish 23 sections in 3 meetings?

Will usapa present the dream list at this next NMB session? I think you guys should demand that usapa does. I for one want to see what the company does.

You might want to hold on to that word "DENIED"

 

[Black Swan]

It's funny you think that this is over.

All of the testimony, evidence is ready to go if usapa can ever get a contract passed. We still have the company law suit to get through.

All this does is remove any excuses that usapa has for not getting a contract. It is now time to see what usapa can do. Are they even capable of delivering a contract? 3 more sessions with the NMB to the end of the year. Anyone think usapa can finish 23 sections in 3 meetings?

Will usapa present the dream list at this next NMB session? I think you guys should demand that usapa does. I for one want to see what the company does.

You might want to hold on to that word "DENIED"

And here is our winner!!!! "It's funny you think that this is over....." well, that depends on what over means, that depends on what DENIED is DENIED..............

 

[Black Swan]

Does this mean there is no damages trial?

 

[cleardirect]

Another example of how a certain group of airline pilots keep the bar lowered.We'll just go right around you like we always do. Change of Control, possible LOA 84 coming up fast. It ain't looking good for the west Clear..............On my overnights, I am going to have some tip cans made up for those American Pilots to drop some money in for AOL.

Something only has value if there is someone willing to pay you for it. Is there a merger coming soon? Watch the last crew news Parker said the next merger is 3-5 years out. Willing to wait that long for a contract?

What else did Parker tell you about CoC? That if it triggers CoC there will be no merger. If there is a merger there will be no CoC. During the UAL possible merger do you think you were going to get CoC pay? Check with your rep.

Talk about a lottery ticket that you can not cash. CoC!!!! Useless.

LOA 93 will be the pay rates for the future.

Why did it take so long for usapa to finish that grievance? Argued in Feb. Not completed until June. I would think for something as important to your guys as that usapa would have been all over it. Pushing hard to get it done. Could it be that they knew they had a loser case and just want to string the loyalists along a little longer?

But on the off chance that an arbitrator is willing to cost the company another $150 million a year without the language. Then I guess we can complain about usapa not get us pay parity and what terrible people the east is for not supporting west parity. Let’s see how that works out. Usapa can show us what kind of leverage they have to get parity. So far they have not been able to get it for the east. 2 years in charge and nothing.

 

[Black Swan]

"LOA 93 will be the pay rates for the future...." The bar keeps going lower.

 

[traderjake]

Sorry Jake, I can't buy that. Something would have to put the Captains seat in play for it to be lost. That's if you completely disregard NO BUMP, NO FLUSH. The only place that Captain could lose out would be a bid for a new seat on another airplane or another base. Other than that, there is NO WAY for an East F/O to displace a West Captain.

Tell that to the Piedmont Captains who lost their seats to USAir First Officers.

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry Jake, I can't buy that. Something would have to put the Captains seat in play for it to be lost. That's if you completely disregard NO BUMP, NO FLUSH. The only place that Captain could lose out would be a bid for a new seat on another airplane or another base. Other than that, there is NO WAY for an East F/O to displace a West Captain.

If I am missing something here, as Ron White would say, "splain it to me"!

Driver B)

The way I see any "theft" happening under DOH with C&R is a major shift of time from PHX to the east. So say that PHX doesn't shrink, but the company thinks they can do 40% of it's flying more efficiently from PHL and CLT and moves the time there. Under that situation many west captains would not have the DOH seniority to hold their old positions and they would now be held by east pilots that could not hold that position before.

Under Nic the similar thing happens. If time is shifted west, the east captain jobs now held by guys lower on the Nic would be shifted west. Then going forward it is more drastic. Let's take a friend of mine. Hired in 87, he would have been less than number 5 on the list at retirement with DOH. Since we can't predict the future let's assume a static fleet. That number would make him a very senior 330 captain at retirement (number 2 330 capt. Clt on latest bid) Under Nic, he would be 500+, so he couldn't even hold 330 captain in CLT, (on the latest bid the bottom CLT 330 capt is # 271) In addition for the next 15+ years he would have almost the entire AWA list ahead of him bidding vacancies, vacation, schs etc. ahead of him.

I don't theft is the right word in either situation. It isn't with the west, as they didn't do it it, Nic did. That is unless you think that they should have seen the Nic as a wrong and worked to correct it. The east sees it that way, correcting a wrong, not theft. I guess theft is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[nic4us]

Sorry Jake, I can't buy that. Something would have to put the Captains seat in play for it to be lost. That's if you completely disregard NO BUMP, NO FLUSH. The only place that Captain could lose out would be a bid for a new seat on another airplane or another base. Other than that, there is NO WAY for an East F/O to displace a West Captain.

If I am missing something here, as Ron White would say, "splain it to me"!

Driver B)

I will try to "splain it".

Everyones seat is always "in play".

The airline is not a static entity. New aircraft orders, fleet replacements, domicile closures/expansions will always be part of the ongoing bussiness. For example, part of the merger deal was a large contribution from Airbus, in exchange for being the launch customer for the A350. Also, it is no secret that the 737 fleet is going away.

Now, hypothetically, who gets to fly those new aircraft? The previously furloughed guy with less LOS than myself, or me. I say, I have every right to an expectation that I would remain senior to a pilot, who at the time of the merger had far less status within the company, (actually had no status except a recall right).

When the last 737s leave, where do those pilots go? The West captains flying them go below the east furloughs according to usapa.

Another way of putting it, why does the furloughed guy with less LOS all of a sudden have a future within the company that has a much greater expectation than mine? The usapa DOH plan "steals" my future expectation and gives it to the furloughed guy with less LOS, plain and simple.

This same theme carries throughout the entire list. Why does an east reserve f/o all of a sudden get to leapfrog the entire West Captain roster? How do you go from the lowest paid pilot on the property (or even furloughed), to having the seniority to outbid 80% of the West pilot group for the rest of their careers? The answere is (I know the term is inflamatory,but) you "steal" the West pilots seniority.

 

[Black Swan]

Parker addressed the "whom" question in the last crew news in CLT. I don't think we will see a merger with AA until they go through a BK and eliminate their pension. Parker does not want to be the bad guy on that so he will let someone else bring that bad news.

Also AA said that they have a $600 million cost disadvantage against the rest of the industry. Pension. It is easy to do the math on that. AA will continue to lose money until they make some major changes.

I see the clear plan coming together if we ever do merge with AA. If they lose their pension, which is acceptable to you, then you are going to say their careers were in the toilet, take a snapshot of the point where they might go into BK, (acceptable to you) then hard charge the plan to put them on the bottom. This is what we are up against. More bar lowering. Unbelievable, unacceptable.

 

[Pi brat]

Other than that, there is NO WAY for an East F/O to displace a West Captain.

If I am missing something here, as Ron White would say, "splain it to me"!

Driver B)

Driver,

You explained it in your previous post, the moving of time. I'm not too found of Trader's style, but he is right, it happened quite a bit after the PI/US merger. Haven't seen Jim in a while but he can explain how it works with our permanent bid system.