US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

Really? the intustry's Moral support? Oh..thats right you must be from the West..You see, us here on the East don't agree neither do my friends at other airlines!! So your statement is Biased at the least!
Cheers!!

My statement is biased, my opinion is biased, what others tell me is biased because they know they are talking to a West pilot. I completely understand that and your point.

However, the fact remains that the only problem West pilots had when asking for jumpseats was how to distinguish themselves from their east counterparts. That AOL has recieved monetary donations from outside the West pilot group. That almost every time I get on a crew van with a Southwest, or Delta, or UAL crew, they are smart enough to figure out that I am America West, and they almost always voice their unsolicited support, even though they have never met me before and really have no reason to say it out loud unless they feel that way.

 

[mikey60]

Nic


When do you ever have time to ride in vans or talk to cther crews, Your on this board every time I get on. Do you really work for LCC or you just another jettz....You can now continue your dribble.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So that means that IF the EAST gets an improvement to your contract and what you said was usapa could care less about getting the west any further improvements. So yes it would be a DFR because usapa the CBA would be treating a domicile differently and less fair. It would still be usapa duty to continue to negotiate a contract. If they walked away from their duties, DFR. A 4-5-6 year delay would not be considered good faith.

Maybe you guys are beginning to understand this whole union thing is kind of tricky and most of you are not sophisticated enough to deal with it.

Yeah. It is definitely tricky.

But, if the east pilots win the LOA 93 arbitration, there is not a snowball's chance in h*** that there will be enough votes to ratify ANY contract that has the Nicolau in it. There are just too many east pilots that will be as happy as a pig in slop to remain under the current east contract with 2002 Restructuring pay rates. When those pigs fly (i.e. retire) and the balance tips toward the west, then you may see ratification.

But there's no way that USAPA can be faulted on a DFR if they can't get enough votes to ratify, a point that the 9th made abundantly clear. Because absent a contact it's not ripe. USAPA does not control the individual votes of the members, and that is what will make or break any contract proposal.

 

[nic4us]

Nic


When do you ever have time to ride in vans or talk to cther crews, Your on this board every time I get on. Do you really work for LCC or you just another jettz....You can now continue your dribble.

Work for LCC, lineholding a320 captain. I am on here all too often, and the funny thing is the same 5 east posters are here every time I show up, why do you not query their status?

I will say this. My post total is approaching 1500. I am reasonably confident I will never hit 1800.

 

[N924PS]

Work for LCC, lineholding a320 captain. I am on here all too often, and the funny thing is the same 5 east posters are here every time I show up, why do you not query their status?

I will say this. My post total is approaching 1500. I am reasonably confident I will never hit 1800.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some, if not alll, of those prolific East posters are receiving Flight Pay Loss from USAPA for their posts.

 

[informed]

Question,

Do you consider growth anything above what you had at the time of the merger (not orders but actual hulls) or do you consider growth to be above what you had before the fleet reductions?

The TA of USAirways and America West pilots defines your inquiry, it is not left up to personal definition. What will this mean with your personal situation your airline will be facing shortly.

 

[nic4us]

We had 10 A330s on order prior to the merger. Just like the West fleet, the East fleet has shrunk to min fleet count. That is not growth. West has taken delivery of several A320 family aircraft, but the West fleet has NOT grown. Both sides have parked aircraft over the last few years. The 190s were supposed to be growth, but even they, to a large degree ended up being replacement aircraft.

So far, all this outfit has done is move pieces around the chess board. I darn sure wouldn't call that growth.

Driver B)

I mentioned the 330s in response to an accusation that the West was somehow trying to steal them. I believe the poster said "give up all our 330 and Captain seats".

I agree with your post and what I am trying to point out is that usapa has no intention of protecting the West's min fleet count or the seats the West brought to the merger, and that it is hypocritical to claim ownership of any hulls that came after the merger for the east, but hold anything for the West as domicile (not aircraft) dependant.

 

[traderjake]

And being called a liar by an ALPAphile?

This is a complex concept so you may have to read it a few times: the fact that I don't like USAPA doesn't mean I like ALPA.

 

[767jetz]

The TA of USAirways and America West pilots defines your inquiry, it is not left up to personal definition. What will this mean with your personal situation your airline will be facing shortly.

I was only interested in his personal opinion on what is considered growth.

As for my personal situation, I have not yet read the entire Transition Agreement, but we have furlough protection for all UA and CO pilots, they must keep exactly the number of aircraft and domiciles they now have, and no flying can be moved from one operation to another, until there is a JCBA and an integrated seniority list as well as a single operating certificate. I do know that your TA and situation was examined in detail to avoid the same pitfalls. So was DL/NW in order to form a successful plan going forward.

 

[informed]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some, if not alll, of those prolific East posters are receiving Flight Pay Loss from USAPA for their posts.

There is not one poster from the East that is on flight pay loss. It would not surprise me if an ALPA rep or company rep posts on this board on flight pay loss. USAPA being voted in makes them look like the behind of a horse.

Subsequent results pending USAPA's inquiry of the treatment of older pilots, pension inquiries, loa 93 etc, would make them desperate to help make USAPA fail.

It sort of reminds me when the former PSA pilot who became the MEC leader of USAirways, helped garner millions of pension money for the former PSA pilots, courtesy of the original USAirways East pilots, used up his sick time, then retired.

 

[informed]

I was only interested in his personal opinion on what is considered growth.

I do know that your TA and situation was examined in detail to avoid the same pitfalls. So was DL/NW in order to form a successful plan going forward.

What did UAL, CAL, DL, NWA, the cornerstone airlines learn from USAirways, AWA TA sir?

 

[informed]

I was only interested in his personal opinion on what is considered growth.

As for my personal situation, I have not yet read the entire Transition Agreement, but we have furlough protection for all UA and CO pilots, they must keep exactly the number of aircraft and domiciles they now have, and no flying can be moved from one operation to another, until there is a JCBA and an integrated seniority list as well as a single operating certificate.

There was no furlough protection except for minimum aircraft in the USAirways situation, other than that the UAL, CAL situation you scribed is the same as the USAirway, America West pilots.

 

[N924PS]

It sort of reminds me when the former PSA pilot who became the MEC leader of USAirways, helped garner millions of pension money for the former PSA pilots, courtesy of the original USAirways East pilots, used up his sick time, then retired.

This statement reminds me that you are simply "UNINFORMED".

The pensions that former PSA pilots were fortunate enough to receive were earned under PSA's own Defined Benefit Plan. PSA Pilots pension monies were rolled into the USAir plan as were the former PI pilots pension money.

 

[Phoenix]

This is a complex concept so you may have to read it a few times: the fact that I don't like USAPA doesn't mean I like ALPA.

Yeah, its pretty complex. I won't call you a liar, but I noticed you didn't deny calling him one. :blink:

 

[Freighterguynow]

Of course they do not, unfortunately they want something they did not have prior to the merger and in order to get it they have to disadvantage the West pilot group to secure what they want.

Translation, they have to steal West jobs to get what they want.

Here is a little update for you 9. It is not Your company anymore. They are not your bases anymore. They are not your airplanes anymore. It is not your flying anymore. It is not your attrition anymore.

It is all community property, shared amongst the new combined pilot group. Combined via the contractually mandated, final and binding, Nicolau Award.

Anything less and you are stealing from the West.

Thank goodness for membership ratification and a 2-1 majority because it'll be a cold day in heck before you ever get a chance to even think about bidding East.