US Pilots Labor Discussion 7/28- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[PullUp]

Your kidding, right? USAPA negotiators aren't even generating the proposals! They're letting the company push a proposal across the table first! Why? God only knows but it probably has to do with the inexperience of the NC. I bet they don't even know how to generate a proposal in the first place. Two and a half years into this and all USAPA has managed to TA is six of the easiest sections in any contract. You know, the Missing in Action and Prisoner of War section and the other handful which are no-brainers. Better sick/vacation/duty rigs. Yeah! Not in this regime! I know, "the company is dragging its feet." Ummm....yeehah! What do you think they were going to do?

Now you've got Seham asking the District Court in AZ to stay the company's suit while the Addington plaintiffs go to the SCOTUS. Assuming Seham is successful, it will be at least five months to hear back from the SCOTUS, and then the company could resume its case. That case will take at least a year, probably longer if one of the parties appeals to the 9th. In the meantime, contract negotiations are parked.

I can live under C2004 during all of this. How's LOA 93 working for you?

You know what, I'm OK with it - as long as the east attrition is available for east pilots.
Negotiations were slow because of a frivolous lawsuit filed by a gentleman named Addington.
What could happen while court cases were being fought? Certainly, no contract cost could be valued if the seniority list is in limbo.
Now, it seems the company prefers it that way, now that no mergers are pending for the forseeable future.
You said it yourself: The negotiations are parked while the lawyers are doing their thing. So, that is the NAC's fault?
Right.

 

[Hate2fly]

I'm happy you have so much upside to look forward to, that will make the Nicolau list more palatable. Plus, Aquagreen is a hero among the west and the donations are flooding in. With our recent victory in the 4th and the company's filing in AZ we pretty muich have you pinned in out east. In a little while USAPA will be finished...
In the meantime, enjoy LOA93 rates, that's about what you are worth.

Pre,

aqua and fergie are wonderful.........they are the reason the majority of us in the east think the way we do. They united us better than you will ever imagine. As you all age in the coming years you will realize the numerous mistakes that you have all made following your so called hero. How about a shout out for your boy Wake?

Nicolau didn't do any of you out west any favors! Enjoy the ride.

Hate

 

[Pi brat]

In the meantime, enjoy LOA93 rates, that's about what you are worth.

Thanks. I guess that is what AWA pilots were worth for so long since they are the ones that set the bar there.

 

[Hate2fly]

Keeping basic facts straight makes your case a little more believable. Jan 1, 2011 not 2010.

LOA 93 is a dream that will never pay off.

400-500 million? Right. The company has offered $122 million. Even if usapa had the skill to double that amount it would be $244 million. Another dream.

CoC yet another dream. What did Parker tell you all? Either you get rid of the CoC and there is a merger or there is no merger. You guys will NEVER see $330 for A330 or $230 for A320.

What you guys can look forward to is LA 93 until you retire.

If the west is younger and smarter and the east is the opposite that, what does that make the east pilots?

Clear,

You are way to sharp for me. Good catch on the date! Ken Cooper would be proud.


Hate

 

[cleardirect]

You know what, I'm OK with it - as long as the east attrition is available for east pilots.
Negotiations were slow because of a frivolous lawsuit filed by a gentleman named Addington.
What could happen while court cases were being fought? Certainly, no contract cost could be valued if the seniority list is in limbo.
Now, it seems the company prefers it that way, now that no mergers are pending for the forseeable future.
You said it yourself: The negotiations are parked while the lawyers are doing their thing. So, that is the NAC's fault?
Right.

Wait, wait, wait.

How many times did we hear from you guys the seniority is a NO COST ITEM? The company does not care who flies the airplane. Right! Now you are telling us that usapa has to cost the contract with a DOH list? Are we finally get to the truth?

There are 30 sections in the contract. usapa has managed to finish 8. Except for section 22 that leaves 21 other sections to work on while the seniority is done. How are those pay rates coming? How about STD? Scheduling, line bidding or PBS?

So the false statement that usapa can not get a contract until seniority is done is just the false. usapa does not have the ability.

 

[prechilill]

Thanks. I guess that is what AWA pilots were worth for so long since they are the ones that set the bar there.

Well, if you have no ambitions of working for better than LOA93 rates, what other conclusion can be made? Me, personally, I would want more. But if you and Hate are happy where you are at then so be it, that is your call.

 

[Hate2fly]

Well, if you have no ambitions of working for better than LOA93 rates, what other conclusion can be made? Me, personally, I would want more. But if you and Hate are happy where you are at then so be it, that is your call.

pre,

Every day we wake up back east we wonder why we were so lucky to have merged with the sand people. Nothing but the best! Separate operations is really the way to go. We love using that world class call sign......we are reminded of the heritage of the sand people.

Hate

 

[767jetz]

...and the west posters will most probably spin this as USAPA's fault...
Have a great day, considering...

Ahhh... BINGO!

The East could have had better wages and work rules YEARS ago. Has anyone figured out how many dollars have been lost already to the average east pilot between LOA 93 and legal fees?

The original tactic of the east after the arbitration was delay, delay, and delay. You even bragged about it on this forum that every day you delayed was a good day for you. Now you complain that the someone else is delaying for their benefit. I don't think you will find much sympathy.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Pre,

aqua and fergie are wonderful.........they are the reason the majority of us in the east think the way we do. They united us better than you will ever imagine.
Hate

Really? I thought it was ALPA that unified the East. Oh wait, I thought it was Nicolau that unified the East. Wait, now I'm confused because you're saying that it is Leonidas that unified the East.

Two Questions: how long do I get to enjoy my new status and who will be the villain du jour after LOA 93 snapbacks fail?

 

[Ames]

I just wish to offer congratulations to the Cactus 18 pilots. They stood their ground, refusing to capitulate, refusing to stab one another in the back when offered an easy out. They have proven that "the little guy" can stand his ground against a much larger "bully" and prevail. I do hope this event foreshadows the future in regards to West pilots and usapa.

Moderator note:
Merged into pilot labor thread.

 

[prechilill]

pre,

Seperate operations is really the way to go. We love using that world class call sign......we are reminded of the heritage of the sand people.

Hate

So is spelling class, but that is another story. I'm glad you like using that callsign because it took some extra effort on Ed's part to get it from the Air Force. It is pretty cool, just like Speedbird, Shamrock and Dynasty to name a few. USAir for decades has always had such a poor reputation.

 

[767jetz]

The AWA pilots are not satisfied with keeping what they had prior to the merger,

Complete BS. No one gained or lost more than a few percentage points of seniority. Junior pilots were still junior pilots. Furloughed pilots were still at the bottom of the list. It is the east who does not want to keep what they had. (ie: 17 year pilots on furlough; pilots who would never again see the left seat and retire from the right; etc. etc.)

The east (those on this forum at least and those running USAPA) will not be happy until they steal ALL post merger growth and benefits of the merger. The idea of keeping what you had goes both ways you know. You can't just cherry pick the good stuff and leave the left over crap for someone else.

We will see this place dry up and blow away before we allow you to steal our jobs. Count on it.

Boeing Driver

As you wish. Go for it. The sooner the better actually. The west pilots will fare much better if it comes to that and they must move on to other airlines. Count on that.

 

[Hate2fly]

Really? I thought it was ALPA that unified the East. Oh wait, I thought it was Nicolau that unified the East. Wait, now I'm confused because you're saying that it is Leonidas that unified the East.

Two Questions: how long do I get to enjoy my new status and who will be the villain du jour after LOA 93 snapbacks fail?

aqua,

We have told you so many times they are not snapbacks...............you just don't listen! This is why you got spanked by the 9th! Wait your turn. Fruend told the west that all the risk was on your side and you didn't listen. You will never realize how much you have helped us unite the east pilot group. You are almost like a "best friend" to the east. Some day you will be able to tell the west pilots how you took control of the situation and kept them in separate operations for all those years. You will have some great battles to talk about! You should be very proud.

Hate

 

[aquagreen73s]

Glad to be of help.

 

[Phoenix]

It is the east who does not want to keep what they had. (ie: 17 year pilots on furlough; pilots who would never again see the left seat ...)

The 17 pilots on furlough expected to remain furloughed, or right seat reserve for the rest of their career, despite the retirements of about 250 to 300 pilots every year. That's an argument. If you are offering to allow youngsters to sit to the left of those 17 year pilots until they retire, your argument sounds better than a sure fire lottery ticket. If you offer that argument to the 17 year pilots, your argument is.. well an argument.