US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[SparrowHawk]

I'd say that if you are off this property, and want to come back to this property, you need to have your head examined. As bad as the east/west relationship is the people who pretend to run this outfit are truly incompetent. I give it a 30% chance of survival even with an economic recovery. And if it does it certainly isn't going to be "merged", regardless of the seniority/lawsuit outcomes.

Find a company that is a real airline folks. Look at your furlough as an opportunity. That's what it is. And think OUTSIDE of the airline pilot box. Car salesmen make more than many of our pilots. That is not speculation. That is truth.

I can't speak to pay rates but I will echo your sentiments based ipon a few conversations over the years. Sat next a non-rev RJ FO with 3 years and he broke $30K for the first time in his career. Some of the FO turboprop guys aren't hitting $25K at the wholly owned subs.

Most any decent Sales Job with a legitimate company will put an agressive person who works the deal the right way into the $60 -80K range second year. If you are a quick study you can earn what my friend Samantha earned. She broke $100K in her first year and she was 26 years old and had a W-2 that exceeded BOTH her parents combined income. In fairness it should be noted that she works her everloving assets off and reads and studies various sales techniques.

I happen to think pilots would make excellent Sales Reps because they are very methodical. Despite the pop culture caricature of the lone wolf wheeler Dealer, say anything for a buck stereotype the BEST of the Best are very methodical have a plan that they follow to the letter and have the ability to think on their feet as situations change. Think "Sully" only difference being in that example is no ones life is at risk selling.

Sales Reps are the Elite Athletes of Business..

 

[Tiger 1050]

I'd say that if you are off this property, and want to come back to this property, you need to have your head examined. As bad as the east/west relationship is the people who pretend to run this outfit are truly incompetent. I give it a 30% chance of survival even with an economic recovery. And if it does it certainly isn't going to be "merged", regardless of the seniority/lawsuit outcomes.

Find a company that is a real airline folks. Look at your furlough as an opportunity. That's what it is. And think OUTSIDE of the airline pilot box. Car salesmen make more than many of our pilots. That is not speculation. That is truth.

Let me just say that from where I sit I would take this job back. I made no mention of sticking around but as the saying goes, never say never. Your perspective obviously is an employed perspective. It's always easier to find a new job when you already have one, right? You're correct though, US Airways has some major issues. I do agree that she is on rocky ground, however it is a paycheck. I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that you have no idea what the real job market is like. But then why would you! You are still employed. To give you the short and dirty version; we are in a major recession. THERE ARE NO JOBS! And if there is, no one wants to hire a guy they know is gonna bail the minute their career gets back on track. Frankly I gave serious consideration to other career paths and I gave myself until the end of this summer to get recalled or hired somewhere else. But honestly I want to fly. If it doesn't work out then I plan to go back to school.

 

[luvn737s]

Find a company that is a real airline folks.

You gave it away right there. Pal, there are no "real" airlines anymore. It's a commodity business and everyone operates in the same environment.

The swimming pool is chock full o' turds and it makes no difference if you're Michael Phelps or not.

 

[Black Swan]

Let me just say that from where I sit I would take this job back. I made no mention of sticking around but as the saying goes, never say never. Your perspective obviously is an employed perspective. It's always easier to find a new job when you already have one, right? You're correct though, US Airways has some major issues. I do agree that she is on rocky ground, however it is a paycheck. I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that you have no idea what the real job market is like. But then why would you! You are still employed. To give you the short and dirty version; we are in a major recession. THERE ARE NO JOBS! And if there is, no one wants to hire a guy they know is gonna bail the minute their career gets back on track. Frankly I gave serious consideration to other career paths and I gave myself until the end of this summer to get recalled or hired somewhere else. But honestly I want to fly. If it doesn't work out then I plan to go back to school.

I agree you should absolutely keep your number. Do you live in a hub city for this airline? If you do, absolutely keep your option. If you live in the city you fly from, you have 95% of the problem licked. You can take more punishment ie reserve. It is true, the job market su*^(ks. This is a better job than 99% of others, no matter what anyone says. If you picked this job, your makeup is independent, and you don't like an office. This is worth $$$ no matter what anyone else says. I still say this place is a survivor, and even more so going forward. Follow the cash flow. There is too much cash moving, at least on the east , to kill it. Would you evict a tenant who was paying his/her rent versus taking a chance on getting a new tenant who may or may not pay the rent? This is what GE Cap weighs every day, as well as the rest of the leaseholders. No, you don't throw out a tenant who pays monthly. At this point, they know who pays the cash. Republic, Wisconsin, and the business traveler out of PHL and CLT. I cannot speak for PHX. Remember, a lot of us older guys, which is much of Airways East, will be going soon. There is massive potential for moveup in a few years. This is lost on the West. Regardless, keep your options open. If you have a number, and want to fly, then keep it. It will not be too long.... Good luck.

 

[Black Swan]

Are you rewriting history?

We took paycuts, freezes and concessions and lost 1/2 the mechanics off the line, I guess you shouldnt comment on things you have no idea about, all of this in 92 after the 5 day strike.

I really don't remember much of this at all. I don't think the pilots had much to do with the mechs. getting tossed. I do remember them parking the jets, and no other airline doing it, and that seemed top be the fighting point. If it was, do you really think any airline could go forward with a position of mechanics PARKING jets? I do remember the Piedmont boys laughing about this. And I have to say they were right. I still do not have any desire to see any employee lose their job, no matter what you think.

 

[Black Swan]

Are you rewriting history?

We took paycuts, freezes and concessions and lost 1/2 the mechanics off the line, I guess you shouldnt comment on things you have no idea about, all of this in 92 after the 5 day strike.

How did a stock clerk get hit in this deal? Yes, I remember the mechs' getting hit, now that you bring it up. U was the ONLY airline out there that required a mechanic to park a jet. Didn't think much about it at the time. This was my first major job, but then when you got the Braniff, and Piedmont and TWA guys there commenting on how absurd it was, then you had to agree it did not make much sense to have a licensed mechanic required to park and chock a jet. Kind of like having a flight engineer on a 737 when I first got in the industry. Then it was just UAL and Western doing that, and no others, no? So we all took a little hit then, didn't we.

 

[boeingplt]

Let me just say that from where I sit I would take this job back. I made no mention of sticking around but as the saying goes, never say never. Your perspective obviously is an employed perspective. It's always easier to find a new job when you already have one, right? You're correct though, US Airways has some major issues. I do agree that she is on rocky ground, however it is a paycheck. I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that you have no idea what the real job market is like. But then why would you! You are still employed. To give you the short and dirty version; we are in a major recession. THERE ARE NO JOBS! And if there is, no one wants to hire a guy they know is gonna bail the minute their career gets back on track. Frankly I gave serious consideration to other career paths and I gave myself until the end of this summer to get recalled or hired somewhere else. But honestly I want to fly. If it doesn't work out then I plan to go back to school.

I've been there and you are absolutely correct, well stated too. Too bad we have to through rocks at each other on,,,that...other subject. Hang in there, I would be willing to bet you are back this year. Any takers?

 

[luvn737s]

All the angry F/O's at US are the ones who decided to stick around or come back. Had they moved on at the opportune time, who knows how much better they might have fared. I would recommend seriously considering all offers outside of US lest you become married to the idea of having invested 10,15, 20 or 40 years or whatever and having the expectation that you are somehow entitled to something because of that. You will be coming back to the bottom of the lowest paying major airline. Period. And you will most likely be in the spin cycle again in your career at US if history is any guide. Compare all other opportunities to this reality and make your choice. The trajectory of this career is never going to be positive again, so don't feel you might miss out on some great golden age of the Airline Pilot, because I can assure you , there ain't gonna be one. The next major development will be UAV passenger airliners, and that isn't going to drive up the price of pilots.

The legacy is US is hope which grows into trust which is shattered by betrayal which spirals into cynicism which is eased only by more hope and the cycle continues. If you feel your life is best spent investing in this endless loop then I guess you can't be talked out of it.

Look around, find a need in society that's not being met, then work like crazy to build a business that does it better than anyone else. Then use your profits to go fly something cool.

 

[700UW]

Every employee in maintenance including mechanics, stock clerks and utility took hits, pay cuts, wage freezes, work rule concessions and job cuts.

And at the time, NW mechanics and Piedmont at several stations had mechanics parking planes as every logbook has to be checked each flight.

 

[HPDriver]

Emotion is the cancer of intelligence and reason.

And emotion = easties

 

[Tiger 1050]

All the angry F/O's at US are the ones who decided to stick around or come back. Had they moved on at the opportune time, who knows how much better they might have fared. I would recommend seriously considering all offers outside of US lest you become married to the idea of having invested 10,15, 20 or 40 years or whatever and having the expectation that you are somehow entitled to something because of that. You will be coming back to the bottom of the lowest paying major airline. Period. And you will most likely be in the spin cycle again in your career at US if history is any guide. Compare all other opportunities to this reality and make your choice. The trajectory of this career is never going to be positive again, so don't feel you might miss out on some great golden age of the Airline Pilot, because I can assure you , there ain't gonna be one. The next major development will be UAV passenger airliners, and that isn't going to drive up the price of pilots.

The legacy is US is hope which grows into trust which is shattered by betrayal which spirals into cynicism which is eased only by more hope and the cycle continues. If you feel your life is best spent investing in this endless loop then I guess you can't be talked out of it.

Look around, find a need in society that's not being met, then work like crazy to build a business that does it better than anyone else. Then use your profits to go fly something cool.

Luvn,
We all know hind sight is twenty twenty. Obviously the future is blurry at best and one must make decisions based on information at that time. In fact there is more than just the perceived health of the airline that play into these decisions. Frankly (and at risk of handing our "internet board opponents" grenades) AWA was never in my fantasy reel of airlines to work for. In the end it was an exceptional experience and I am glad I made the choice to work there. All the people were top notch and made it really feel like a family atmosphere which is important to me. I suppose I don't have to tell you what reality brought with it. My point is NO ONE knows what the future will hold for ANY airline. If one can't accept the risk then I guess the best answer is to get out of the biz. I can accept some risk for now. The reality is that it would take considerable time and investment to switch tracks. Additionally it would require motivation and finances, neither of which I have a lot of at this time... Flying it is. If I get called back, great! If another airline comes calling I'll re-evaluate my situation. So unless someone wants to fund my new business venture I'll need to take what is offered.

 

[boeingplt]

All the angry F/O's at US are the ones who decided to stick around or come back. Had they moved on at the opportune time, who knows how much better they might have fared. I would recommend seriously considering all offers outside of US lest you become married to the idea of having invested 10,15, 20 or 40 years or whatever and having the expectation that you are somehow entitled to something because of that. You will be coming back to the bottom of the lowest paying major airline. Period. And you will most likely be in the spin cycle again in your career at US if history is any guide. Compare all other opportunities to this reality and make your choice. The trajectory of this career is never going to be positive again, so don't feel you might miss out on some great golden age of the Airline Pilot, because I can assure you , there ain't gonna be one. The next major development will be UAV passenger airliners, and that isn't going to drive up the price of pilots.

The legacy is US is hope which grows into trust which is shattered by betrayal which spirals into cynicism which is eased only by more hope and the cycle continues. If you feel your life is best spent investing in this endless loop then I guess you can't be talked out of it.

Look around, find a need in society that's not being met, then work like crazy to build a business that does it better than anyone else. Then use your profits to go fly something cool.

And you think we're angry!

 

[cleardirect]

And you think we're angry!

I read no anger in that post. You may be feeling anger because he is pointing out a career that you may not want to examine that closely. It is anger at yourself not the messenger.

There is nothing in that post that is not a concise description of the current state of airlines and Us Air in particular. I agree if someone on furlough has another opportunity for a good paying stable job they should seriously consider it. The airline business is not what it once was and will never be again. Sticking around here will not get you what you were promised 20 years ago at indoc.

No anger, reality.

 

[luvn737s]

And you think we're angry!

Unfortunately, it is almost word-for-word the advice given to me in 1982. No anger, just an urgency to not repeat my mistake.

 

[Black Swan]

Every employee in maintenance including mechanics, stock clerks and utility took hits, pay cuts, wage freezes, work rule concessions and job cuts.

And at the time, NW mechanics and Piedmont at several stations had mechanics parking planes as every logbook has to be checked each flight.

This was part of the "pad" when you had the mechs. parking. They then had to check the logbook to justify them being there. Just like the 737 Flight engineers had to do the walk around, get the ATIS, and a few other jobs that were actually F/O jobs on any other jet. I am having a problem with the pilots at the airline being tagged as the cause of this pretty big shift in the way mechanics were used, or shall I say not used. It really made no sense when you were going up against any other airline. It was a dying practice. There were few or no other airlines with this many mechanics sitting around, waiting to park jets and check logs.