US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[veritasaequitas]

You mean there are nutters flying airplanes? Are they all on the east in the right seat?

Do they use really old news to justify their case?

King: Are they really this out of touch?

Why yes they are!

I again think you heard your information from your source during the lengthy and questionable time spent, on the opposite of the horse that you mentioned.

Good Night all.

 

[Metroyet]

I am not who you think. The angry f/o's are mitch and john, your former "leaders". They are f/o's and mitch is close to furlough.

Another angry f/o is an America West pilot. This video for the America West pilots, is their leaderships idea of providing a video to what they think is the IQ"s of their constituents.

Video catering to the former America West pilots

Firstly, please know that I don't think enough of you to give the slightest **** who you actually are. Moreover, the Video speaks the unmitigated truth. You may not like the portrayal, but facts are facts.

 

[Flippin43]

The March 24, 25 BPR meeting saw some very disturbing activity involving your PHL council. The PHL and PHX reps were joined at the hip from beginning to end, starting with a private dinner the Tuesday evening before the meeting and continuing throughout with private caucuses at every break.

Of the many agenda items advanced two stood out as being of particular interest to the PHX and PHL reps respectively. The first was a proposed resolution to strengthen the communications policy by introducing penalties for violations. This has been a longstanding sore point for the PHX council and is a constant source of friction between them and the rest of the BPR.

From the very start of the discussion the PHL reps were squarely and somewhat obtusely behind the efforts of the PHX reps to defeat the measure. Despite considerable debate the PHL reps' support for the PHX council was unwavering - pure chance? We think not.

The next agenda item was a proposed change to the flight pay loss policy advanced by the PHL reps. This proposal involved logistical issues that would have far reaching implications and a vigorous debate ensued. Just as the PHL council firmly supported the agenda of the PHX reps now the PHX council returned the favor with their vigorous support for the PHL reps.

The behavior of the representatives of both councils was conspicuous and displayed pure collusion between them. The main function of the BPR is to advance the will of their constituents. What occurred that week was unabashed bartering between PHL and PHX, trading the support of one for the support of the other, and your interests provided the capital to make it happen.

Pick up the phone, call your reps, and ask them just how far they are willing to go with your interests in order to advance their own agenda. Don’t wait, your very livelihood may hang in the balance.

Interesting,

You set up your union the way you want and now its nots screwing the West pilots properly, east Reps are actually talking to West Reps..........how can this be???

Actually sounds like business as usual out east.

As your finding out, changing the name on the union hall window, doesn't change your committmants, obligations or much else.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I again think you heard your information from your source during the lengthy and questionable time spent, on the opposite of the horse that you mentioned.

Good Night all.

Maybe some may be a bit more psychotic than most and may need some therapy.

Do you have career insurance for things like this?

 

[Flippin43]

You win, Dr. Evil. We'll see how much cash you really get when the union goes away. If USAPA dies, cumulative zero's upon zero's.

On this forum, the great circle of death.

You win, I'm returning to the great circle of life. Good luck with that!!

eoa,

You mention this several times recently, about the Union going away. Are you confidant the a Federal Judge will allow you to just turn out the lights and walk away from a Judgement leveed against usapa. (when usapa loses in the Damages portion of this case)???

So with that in mind, help me out here a bit. You have proclaimed almost wildly that you have "a vote" and you intend to use it to hold off the Nicolau list. If you have no union, as you have equally wildly proclaimed. How does that vote thing work??? Parkers lawyers have said the list has been accepted. If usapa is not successfull ditching the injunction, why would the company use any other list in the face of costly litigation, especially if usapa is gone and therefore no longer in a position to protest.

Oh Yeah one other thing. I found evidence of the massive support you also wildly boast about. Its in post #169 by N924PS Reprinted here for your convienence. Seems as though not all are wishing to follow you and cleary off the cliff.



Disturbing to whom?

Happy to see that at least, and finally, someone on the BPR has come to the realization that USAPA is the CBA for ALL USAirways pilots and not just the East. Let's have more "collusion". Maybe when the courts rule against USAPA there can be some real progress made to enhance the lives of ALL USAirways pilots, not just the one's who feel negatively impacted by the Nicolau Award.

Not all East constituents wish to remain mired in interminable litigation between fellow pilots and will encourage their BPR reps to move forward to a new CBA that addresses more than Section 22.

Keep up the good work PHL BPR!


Flip

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I call it "sucking up". It certainly isn't professional courtesy, of that I'm certain!

Manners are for civilized people.

They are a way of conducting day to day living in a civil manner.

You, I would guess are from the "Burgh" where manners are viewed as a sign of weakness.

You're definition of courtesy , I would very much like to know.

HP-FA has been nothing but polite.

You may disagree with his conclusions but you should not complain about his style. He has taken the high road far more often than you have and your compatriots.

You are a cretin.

If you are so obtuse to think that he is sucking up to some non-existent entity on this board to influence a court decision - then I am incredulous.

You need to see a shrink.

 

[Flippin43]

Manners are for civilized people.

They are a way of conducting day to day living in a civil manner.

You, I would guess are from the "Burgh" where manners are viewed as a sign of weakness.

You're definition of courtesy , I would very much like to know.

HP-FA has been nothing but polite.

You may disagree with his conclusions but you should not complain about his style. He has taken the high road far more often than you have and your compatriots.

You are a cretin.

If you are so obtuse to think that he is sucking up to some non-existent entity on this board to influence a court decision - then I am incredulous.

You need to see a shrink.

Careful,

After I spoke with "eoa" I got the very same feeling.


Flip

 

[end_of_alpa]

Manners are for civilized people.

They are a way of conducting day to day living in a civil manner.

You, I would guess are from the "Burgh" where manners are viewed as a sign of weakness.

You're definition of courtesy , I would very much like to know.

HP-FA has been nothing but polite.

You may disagree with his conclusions but you should not complain about his style. He has taken the high road far more often than you have and your compatriots.

You are a cretin.

If you are so obtuse to think that he is sucking up to some non-existent entity on this board to influence a court decision - then I am incredulous.

You need to see a shrink.

Actually, I'm from SD.

I don't expect to be patronized by anyone on the forum, friendly or otherwise. That is not the point.

The "issue" with him is NOT his conclusions....it's his MOTIVE! If you are a pilot for US Airways, and I presume you are, I value your "opinion" on a scale of 1 to 10 as a 10. That is because you have a potential 1/5200 vote. So it matters to me only in that regard. His advice, "truth", legal analysis, whatever, leads me to believe otherwise. Of course, if the union goes away (and I believe that is HIS ultimate objective), then he is the same as you and I and we compete on the open market. I know that HP doesn't have the capabilities to compete with you and I so I therefore don't care about him in that respect. He's a "legal" analyst here because he either has nothing better to do, he's trying to learn the law on-line or he is a management/corporate/law firm plant.

It's that simple.

I have been let back on the forum because I refrain from flaming people. I am not flaming HP. Thanks for flaming ME!!

If the moderator is reading this PLEASE don't remove it. I would like it to remain a PROOF that I am trying to be reasonable and not trying to "name call" and violate the rules of the board.

Of course if you think I am a cretin you may wish to let the chief pilot in CLT and advise him, the FAA and the media of my "questionable" mental state.

Does he work for AOL, LLC??? Where does HE fit in in the grand scheme of things?? It's one thing to involve yourself here because YOU are a pilot and have a vote. Why does HE care??? Shouldn't you be questionable of the Trojan horse?? Who does HE work for. Leonidas?? US Airways? Litigation law firms mean't to destroy labor unions??? WHO? Divide and conquer. What a better place than here!

Did you ever hear of "divide and conquer"???

If all you "pilots" (and this INCLUDES ME) want to place blame at the alter of greed, let me tell you how this works:

Walk into the bathroom, don't forget to turn on the lights, and point the finger at the only person YOU see in that mirror.

You're correct about the shrink. As you guys so aptly put, "insanity is posting the same thing over and over here and expecting a different result"!

Here at US Airways, we are finding out that it's money over principle.

I'll tell you pilots now...pm me here and I'll be glad to give you my phone number. HP needn't apply.

 

[end_of_alpa]

eoa,

You mention this several times recently, about the Union going away. Are you confidant the a Federal Judge will allow you to just turn out the lights and walk away from a Judgement leveed against usapa. (when usapa loses in the Damages portion of this case)???

ABSOLUTLEY!! The case is ADDINGTON v. USAPA. You and I are NOT USAPA. You work for US Airways. If US Airways goes chapter 7 are you PERSONALLY liable for it's debts? The NMB named USAPA as the CBA. Not you nor I. No USAPA, no money. Don't believe ME?? Call Jacobs and ask him. See what HE tells you. I know you'll get the same answer. If USAPA goes away you can't PUNISH me for voting!! Remember, I presume YOU voted in the election, too. Secret ballot. The majority voted in USAPA. You CAN'T SUE THE MAJORITY WITHOUT SUIING YOURSELF!! GET IT? And that "payment" depends on USAPA's existence. MAI NON???

So with that in mind, help me out here a bit. You have proclaimed almost wildly that you have "a vote" and you intend to use it to hold off the Nicolau list. If you have no union, as you have equally wildly proclaimed. How does that vote thing work??? Parkers lawyers have said the list has been accepted. If usapa is not successfull ditching the injunction, why would the company use any other list in the face of costly litigation, especially if usapa is gone and therefore no longer in a position to protest.

The list is a product of a labor union negotiations. An accepted "a list". Not THE list. Big difference. It's A LIST that met the companies conditions when ALPA was here. If it was THE list, why aren't we using it NOW???

Nonetheless, Our LLC is going to be formed and prepared for the day when unionism is off the property. Then we file EEOC claims against, not you, but US AIRWAYS for disparate treatment claims if they fail to honor our time in service like all the other employee groups. I'll bet you US Airways see's things OUR way over AOL. The list is a PRODUCT of labor negotiations. The EEOC is about statutory employment rights, absent labor union CBA's. Rights that you and I have ONLY in respect to our time in service and qualifications for the job as employees at will.

Oh Yeah one other thing. I found evidence of the massive support you also wildly boast about. Its in post #169 by N924PS Reprinted here for your convienence. Seems as though not all are wishing to follow you and cleary off the cliff.



Disturbing to whom?

Happy to see that at least, and finally, someone on the BPR has come to the realization that USAPA is the CBA for ALL USAirways pilots and not just the East. Let's have more "collusion". Maybe when the courts rule against USAPA there can be some real progress made to enhance the lives of ALL USAirways pilots, not just the one's who feel negatively impacted by the Nicolau Award.

Not all East constituents wish to remain mired in interminable litigation between fellow pilots and will encourage their BPR reps to move forward to a new CBA that addresses more than Section 22.

Keep up the good work PHL BPR!


Flip

Evidence, huh.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Careful,

After I spoke with "eoa" I got the very same feeling.


Flip

When did you ever "speak" with me???

 

[BoeingBoy]

The NMB named USAPA as the CBA. Not you nor I.

The majority voted in USAPA.

Interesting contradiction - the pilots had nothing to do with USAPA being the CBA but the majority selected USAPA as the CBA...

If it was THE list, why aren't we using it NOW???

Rhetorical question???

Then we file EEOC claims against, not you, but US AIRWAYS for disparate treatment claims if they fail to honor our time in service like all the other employee groups.

And of course you don't see the fallacy in that reasoning...

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

The list is a product of a labor union negotiations. An accepted "a list". Not THE list. Big difference. It's A LIST that met the companies conditions when ALPA was here. If it was THE list, why aren't we using it NOW???

It does not matter which union placed the list with the company they have accepted it. Yes the list is the list, you also know why we are not using it. Because like a puzzle the pieces fit together. The list is one piece, the other sections are other pieces. When you vote no and they rest of us actually look at the contract and decide then we may use the list.

Nonetheless, Our LLC is going to be formed and prepared for the day when unionism is off the property. Then we file EEOC claims against, not you, but US AIRWAYS for disparate treatment claims if they fail to honor our time in service like all the other employee groups. I'll bet you US Airways see's things OUR way over AOL. The list is a PRODUCT of labor negotiations. The EEOC is about statutory employment rights, absent labor union CBA's. Rights that you and I have ONLY in respect to our time in service and qualifications for the job as employees at will.

Oh please tell us that you have hired Seham to represent your tiny group. That would explain this little tantrum.

EEOC, right! Just how are you going to get the EEOC to reorder the list by age? Longevity is not a protected class.

 

[cleardirect]

The March 24, 25 BPR meeting saw some very disturbing activity involving your PHL council. The PHL and PHX reps were joined at the hip from beginning to end, starting with a private dinner the Tuesday evening before the meeting and continuing throughout with private caucuses at every break.

Of the many agenda items advanced two stood out as being of particular interest to the PHX and PHL reps respectively. The first was a proposed resolution to strengthen the communications policy by introducing penalties for violations. This has been a longstanding sore point for the PHX council and is a constant source of friction between them and the rest of the BPR.

From the very start of the discussion the PHL reps were squarely and somewhat obtusely behind the efforts of the PHX reps to defeat the measure. Despite considerable debate the PHL reps' support for the PHX council was unwavering - pure chance? We think not.

The next agenda item was a proposed change to the flight pay loss policy advanced by the PHL reps. This proposal involved logistical issues that would have far reaching implications and a vigorous debate ensued. Just as the PHL council firmly supported the agenda of the PHX reps now the PHX council returned the favor with their vigorous support for the PHL reps.

The behavior of the representatives of both councils was conspicuous and displayed pure collusion between them. The main function of the BPR is to advance the will of their constituents. What occurred that week was unabashed bartering between PHL and PHX, trading the support of one for the support of the other, and your interests provided the capital to make it happen.

Pick up the phone, call your reps, and ask them just how far they are willing to go with your interests in order to advance their own agenda. Don’t wait, your very livelihood may hang in the balance.

Wow your first post and you start with the fear and hate.

Quite the unionist aren’t you. Pilots that looked at an issue as an issue, if it was right or wrong not as an east/west thing. The horror for you that usapa does not continue to slam the west. According to you if the east/west domiciles see things the same way it is collusion but if the two east domiciles see things the same way it is the will of the pilots.

“We think not” What do you have a mouse in your pocket. Perhaps this is a union shill sending the message to the angry usapa supporters to stop any progress not directed by Cleary. Just how would you know who had dinner with whom and how would you know who was joined at the hip with who unless you are were at the BPR meeting for more than a few hours to see this. Dinner at night, meetings at every break. One of the inner circle on FPL or you truly are a shill being feed this information to cause and continue the division. Care to tell us how you came with these “facts”?

The west was given the full story on the attempted shut down of communications at the meeting. I would like everyone to reread the statement that has you wound up.

The first was a proposed resolution to strengthen the communications policy by introducing penalties for violations.

Penalties for communicating with the pilots. Two words that should never be in the same sentence. Letting them know what is going on with the union that is supposed to be about the line pilots. How is censoring information, keeping information from the people that are supposed to be making the decisions a good thing? So in usapa’s world the Chinese model of restricted communications from central command is the ideal.

The main function of the BPR is to advance the will of their constituents.

In one sentence you say this is their duty, but complain because these same reps fought against being censored and being unable to do just that through communication.

"Your very livelihood may hang in the balance." Oh my god cats and dogs living together, it would be total anarchy if the two sides begin to find mutual ground. Is the world about to collapse because the east and west agreed on something? Having dinner together is now considered a bad thing by the usapa supporters.

How about posting the wonderful new policy with the penalties? Let the pilots see where the dictator wants to lead this union.

Penalties for giving the pilots information. Who would have thought a union would go so far to restrict the representatives and want penalties for telling the pilots what is gong on. And you guys think that is a good thing.

 

[jetjok1]

Actually, I'm from SD.

I don't expect to be patronized by anyone on the forum, friendly or otherwise. That is not the point.

The "issue" with him is NOT his conclusions....it's his MOTIVE! If you are a pilot for US Airways, and I presume you are, I value your "opinion" on a scale of 1 to 10 as a 10. That is because you have a potential 1/5200 vote. So it matters to me only in that regard. His advice, "truth", legal analysis, whatever, leads me to believe otherwise. Of course, if the union goes away (and I believe that is HIS ultimate objective), then he is the same as you and I and we compete on the open market. I know that HP doesn't have the capabilities to compete with you and I so I therefore don't care about him in that respect. He's a "legal" analyst here because he either has nothing better to do, he's trying to learn the law on-line or he is a management/corporate/law firm plant.

It's that simple.

I have been let back on the forum because I refrain from flaming people. I am not flaming HP. Thanks for flaming ME!!

If the moderator is reading this PLEASE don't remove it. I would like it to remain a PROOF that I am trying to be reasonable and not trying to "name call" and violate the rules of the board.

Of course if you think I am a cretin you may wish to let the chief pilot in CLT and advise him, the FAA and the media of my "questionable" mental state.

Does he work for AOL, LLC??? Where does HE fit in in the grand scheme of things?? It's one thing to involve yourself here because YOU are a pilot and have a vote. Why does HE care??? Shouldn't you be questionable of the Trojan horse?? Who does HE work for. Leonidas?? US Airways? Litigation law firms mean't to destroy labor unions??? WHO? Divide and conquer. What a better place than here!

Did you ever hear of "divide and conquer"???

If all you "pilots" (and this INCLUDES ME) want to place blame at the alter of greed, let me tell you how this works:

Walk into the bathroom, don't forget to turn on the lights, and point the finger at the only person YOU see in that mirror.

You're correct about the shrink. As you guys so aptly put, "insanity is posting the same thing over and over here and expecting a different result"!

Here at US Airways, we are finding out that it's money over principle.

I'll tell you pilots now...pm me here and I'll be glad to give you my phone number. HP needn't apply.

Divide and Conquer?..................Hardly, What, there's maybe 10 of you on here (5 East and 5 West). Hardly a divide and conquer number for the masses. The rest of us, here, have a daily laugh at the day in and day out, old news bantering and bashing that has no chance for resolve because you guys are hashing things that happened in the past. Very few intelligent remarks about the future and what needs to be done to make this thing work. It's like watching the "10 stupid dog tricks nightly on Letterman". I discount most everything HP pilot has to say. His ranting and raving is boring but he did say one thing, IMHO, right on one of his last posts- Most of us out East are waiting for the 9th Court's ruling, WILL ABIDE BY THAT DECISION! and move on accordingly. We played our cards- we deal with the outcome like a professional and accept the results! It's the right thing to do!

 

[luvn737s]

Some of the wisest people accept the counsel of a variety of people before forming an opinion. I encourage HP FA to continue contributing his legal insight and non-pilot-centric viewpoint.

The entire Crew Resource Management concept arose out of the need for more and freer communication, not less. You would think someone who claims to be a pilot would be aware of this, but perhaps old habits die hard. Metaphorically at least.