US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/19- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[CallawayGolf]

If Doug opens up the Las Vegas hub again, yes you get it back. Other than that you are stuck with the PHX shuttle because that is the only thing you have left that you brought.

There you go trying to negotiate ex post facto again. Where did NIC say anything about "you keep what your brought"?The NIC is done and negotiations/mediations/arbitrations are all over. The 9th will not overturn the NIC (not even a question they are considering). You can take that to the bank - which is the only thing you can at this point as your legal counsel is going to keep asking you to go back to the bank to fund his profligate lifestyle at your expense.

 

[Metroyet]

You will get the jobs back in date of hire seniority order when a combined contract is agreed upon and voted in by the dues paying members. I hope this answers you questions, sir.

Date of Hire is dead...remember? Our attorneys blew that little plan up in your faces for you....remember? All seniority driven functions at this airline will be dictated by the Nic award. That will come when the first of the following happens:

The BPR has the stones to put a contract out for a vote
The 9th upholds Wake and the Company asks Wake to put an end to all of this
or Wake sees the unending bad faith negotiations, (not hard to spot) and decides he's had enough of this and simply imposes the Nic.


Please notice that nowhere it the above scenario did "Date of Hire" ever reenter the fold. It's a smoking hole as some like to say....DOH was wrecked by the West...remember?

No? shocking.

 

[veritasaequitas]

There you go trying to negotiate ex post facto again. Where did NIC say anything about "you keep what your brought"?

I was responding to a previous poster sir. They were inquiring about keeping what they brought and I was responding to their post.

I do think the poster I am referring to asked a question that falls under the limits imposed by the transition agreement. Please read the previous posts completely and then "retort" back to me.

 

[veritasaequitas]

Goodnight all,

Have to go, I heard the oven timer go off and I believe my Sushi is cooked and ready to eat.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I was responding to a previous poster sir. They were inquiring about keeping what they brought and I was responding to their post.

I do think the poster I am referring to asked a question that falls under the limits imposed by the transition agreement. Please read the previous posts completely and then "retort" back to me.

I'm fully aware of what was previously posted. The whole line of reasoning about separate ops and hypothetical scenarios is completely irrelevant. The list has been lawfully ordered and accepted and nothing will change that now unless USAPA implodes resulting in a decertification of the CBA. I'm a strong advocate of at-will employment so that would be fine with me. Otherwise the NIC is the list and this will be borne out soon enough.

 

[EastUS]

I don't think ANY West pilot doesn't want East pilots to make better wages. Suggesting anything contrary is simply inflammatory.

You can't possibly be even slightly serious. I can't count the times I've seen "You can live on LOA93 forever!" posted by west participants. Add to that your group even contains a poster who's "name" on the boards is "LOA93". I can't help but think that covers at least the "ANY" assertion. Suggesting anything contrary isn't the least bit inflammatory, but simply the unavoidable product of even momentary observation, whie your suggestion that the west's all just one big caring bunch that doesn't wish at least economic ill on the east is nothing short of preposterous

 

[EastUS]

USAPA has also created an airline within an airline, perhaps to be used against you. What happens when it comes time to seek self help and the West walks right over your picket line to fly the widebodies? Remember they negotiated a rate in their last ALPA contract.

That's fine = "they negotiated a rate"...but they don't have current qualification in at least the 330's nor I'd think the 76's. I must say that I do find it mildly amusing in that your opener so easily assumes the west walking over east picket lines..and yet your closing portion offers the standard get together and move forward as one big happy and cohesive family fantasy.

 

[EastUS]

Professional pilots can't work safely together because of their employment lineage? I'm not sure whether I am more concerned about professionals acting this way or whether the FAA should be investigating such crazy assertions.

The issues arising from the nic insanity are hardly but some "employment lineage" issue, as you would choose to so dismissively imply. I am fairly certain that FAA scrutiny would be there for any combined ops of these two groups though.

 

[EastUS]

It can't be answered with a simple yes or no. It depends on the circumstances at the time, when and if it comes.

Ask me again then and maybe there will be a clear cut answer.

Realistically, I don't think West pilots would cross the line, .......

Perhaps you could kindly just make up your mind, one way or another, and then get back to us all. If I want to mingle with waffles..I'll head to the closest breakfeast provider.

 

[EastUS]

Date of Hire is dead...remember? Our attorneys blew that little plan up in your faces for you....remember?

It then seems that hearty congratulations are in order for undermining a foundational concept of human society. Enjoy all the resulting chaos and insanity that's been so well demonstrated for nearly three years now. Again: Good Going!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What I, find so interesting is the volley's being thrown back and forth, but all I hear is The company has accepted it!( they haven't accepted the NIC, pay rates , etc, till they put the INK to the paper! )They have legal options too!) And as DOUG said in the LAST crew news " WE ARE FAR APART" When you have 3, not 2 parties with different agenda's young gun's blazin , ole folk's grazin, and other's PURPLE HAZIN, the 9th, MDA, LOA 93, merger mania, will just have to roll with it till the river starts flowing in 1 direction! MM!

 

[cleardirect]

What I, find so interesting is the volley's being thrown back and forth, but all I hear is The company has accepted it!( they haven't accepted the NIC, pay rates , etc, till they put the INK to the paper! )They have legal options too!) And as DOUG said in the LAST crew news " WE ARE FAR APART" When you have 3, not 2 parties with different agenda's young gun's blazin , ole folk's grazin, and other's PURPLE HAZIN, the 9th, MDA, LOA 93, merger mania, will just have to roll with it till the river starts flowing in 1 direction! MM!

You need to understand the pieces. The seniority list and arbitration was one piece. That piece is complete. The company has accepted the Nicolau list as the seniority list for Us Airways testified under oath. The federal injunction locks the Nicolau list in as the seniority list for Us Airways.

The other piece is a joint contract. That is pay rates, work rules, ect. That is USAPA's responisibilty along with the company to get a contract and finish the merger. That is a two way deal because the east forced single carrier status.

What Doug said was we are far apart on a contract not the seniority list because they have accepted the list just like the east needs to do.

Question: If on the off chance that you win the LOA 93 does that change the fact or the injunction that usapa has to still bargain for a new contract? Do you think that the judge will allow usapa to get the east a pay raise after violating out rights and do nothing?


You do know that you do not have a vote on a seniority list right? That was never an option. You have a vote on a complete contract. When usapa does their job then you get to decide.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You need to understand the pieces. The seniority list and arbitration was one piece. That piece is complete. The company has accepted the Nicolau list as the seniority list for Us Airways testified under oath. The federal injunction locks the Nicolau list in as the seniority list for Us Airways.

The other piece is a joint contract. That is pay rates, work rules, ect. That is USAPA's responisibilty along with the company to get a contract and finish the merger. That is a two way deal because the east forced single carrier status.

What Doug said was we are far apart on a contract not the seniority list because they have accepted the list just like the east needs to do.

Question: If on the off chance that you win the LOA 93 does that change the fact or the injunction that usapa has to still bargain for a new contract? Do you think that the judge will allow usapa to get the east a pay raise after violating out rights and do nothing?


You do know that you do not have a vote on a seniority list right? That was never an option. You have a vote on a complete contract. When usapa does their job then you get to decide.

If that piece is so complete why is it being appealed( A WEST PILOT BY THE WAY) and when I vote on a contract don't I vote for ALL sections of that contract, regardless of what a judge says has to be in it( internal union dispute betwwen 2 parties that don't exist) If that position was so tight WAKE would have IMPLEMENTED IT ! YOU rest our hopes on the 9th, I won't! Take a look at BYBEE's latest MEMO fiasco! We have been sold a bill of goods and will be fragmented off before all this plays out! When the company comes back and want's to re-open their pieces, pay etc , a piece does not an agreement make! your wrong we ALL get to vote on the pieces, We will lose this war of attrition ! MM! Betting is 1 thing winning is another! PRATER said NO TIMELINE!

 

[N924PS]

I can't count the times I've seen "You can live on LOA93 forever!" posted by west participants.

And I can't count the times I've seen "We can live on LOA93 forever !" posted by East participants

 

[fatherabraham]

It can't be answered with a simple yes or no. It depends on the circumstances at the time, when and if it comes.

Ask me again then and maybe there will be a clear cut answer.

N924PS,

I've belonged to a few diferent unions. I recall a UAW sched walkout, and i am very confident that had I not exited plant at exact time as others then the consequences would have been ugly! To be sure.....my car would have not survived in parking lot.
As wrong as you may label that situation, to be sure it was a union! There were no rank and file deciding if walk out was justifiable in thier personal view of life. Had there been......they would have been labeled this S word were all familiar with.

Perhaps the percieved shortcomings of strenghth of this union lie partially with the likes of you that can openly state that it depends on " the situation at the time ".

FA