US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/19- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[N924PS]

It can't be answered with a simple yes or no. It depends on the circumstances at the time, when and if it comes.

Ask me again then and maybe there will be a clear cut answer.

N924PS,

I've belonged to a few diferent unions. I recall a UAW sched walkout, and i am very confident that had I not exited plant at exact time as others then the consequences would have been ugly! To be sure.....my car would have not survived in parking lot.
As wrong as you may label that situation, to be sure it was a union! There were no rank and file deciding if walk out was justifiable in thier personal view of life. Had there been......they would have been labeled this S word were all familiar with.

Perhaps the percieved shortcomings of strenghth of this union lie partially with the likes of you that can openly state that it depends on " the situation at the time ".

FA

To be sure USAPA is not a union at this time. Union = Unity and it does not exist on this property.

 

[Freebird]

that is the only thing you have left that you brought.

So I take it, you agree with the NIC Award, that you only get what you brought. Good point.

If you were furloughed, you brought nothing. If you were a 757 FO, you remained a 757 FO. Wow, amazing concept.

 

[cleardirect]

If that piece is so complete why is it being appealed( A WEST PILOT BY THE WAY) and when I vote on a contract don't I vote for ALL sections of that contract, regardless of what a judge says has to be in it( internal union dispute betwwen 2 parties that don't exist) If that position was so tight WAKE would have IMPLEMENTED IT ! YOU rest our hopes on the 9th, I won't! Take a look at BYBEE's latest MEMO fiasco! We have been sold a bill of goods and will be fragmented off before all this plays out! When the company comes back and want's to re-open their pieces, pay etc , a piece does not an agreement make! your wrong we ALL get to vote on the pieces, We will lose this war of attrition ! MM! Betting is 1 thing winning is another! PRATER said NO TIMELINE!

Do you guys really have this much trouble keeping this stuff straight? The appeal was by USAPA not a west guy about the way judge Wake handled the DFR trial. The Nicolau is not being appealed. The Nicolau was not on trial. The behavior of USAPA was and they were found liable.
Yes you vote for all of the sections, that will include the arbitrated seniority list.
As far hopes resting. It is USAPA that rest it’s hope on the ninth. Because right now the west won, we hold an injunction to use the Nicolau as the seniority list. It is USAPA that hopes the ninth changes the injunction.

As far as fragmentation take a look at the latest crew news and the last section. Parker was talking about change of control. I may be hoping for fragmentation. Your contract CoC could kill any merger he spins us off to another airline we are ok. He could let the east die because they could not structure a deal. Listen to him. No CoC or no deal.

Prater is gone so is ALPA in case you missed it. Neither have any bearing. I guess unless you try and make the argument that was an ALPA deal, what is it is ALPA relevant or not. You can’t have it both ways.

Prater may have said no timeline but judge Wake may have something to say about that. The east pilots may have something to say about that after 2 years and when you lose the LOA 93 grievance.

 

[Hate2fly]

Do you guys really have this much trouble keeping this stuff straight? The appeal was by USAPA not a west guy about the way judge Wake handled the DFR trial. The Nicolau is not being appealed. The Nicolau was not on trial. The behavior of USAPA was and they were found liable.
Yes you vote for all of the sections, that will include the arbitrated seniority list.
As far hopes resting. It is USAPA that rest it’s hope on the ninth. Because right now the west won, we hold an injunction to use the Nicolau as the seniority list. It is USAPA that hopes the ninth changes the injunction.

As far as fragmentation take a look at the latest crew news and the last section. Parker was talking about change of control. I may be hoping for fragmentation. Your contract CoC could kill any merger he spins us off to another airline we are ok. He could let the east die because they could not structure a deal. Listen to him. No CoC or no deal.

Prater is gone so is ALPA in case you missed it. Neither have any bearing. I guess unless you try and make the argument that was an ALPA deal, what is it is ALPA relevant or not. You can’t have it both ways.

Prater may have said no timeline but judge Wake may have something to say about that. The east pilots may have something to say about that after 2 years and when you lose the LOA 93 grievance.

Clear,

I think MM is a westie.

Doug's little rant over Change of Control had me laughing my ... off. He is starting to realize that any deal he may want to do is going to require our east approval. Not your westie approval. Our east scope clause must really piss you westies and team tempe off. I wonder what it would take to get us to ever even think of giving Dougie some relief? I am not really in the giving mood lately. Doug has probably not been sleeping well lately.......kind of like your desert judge during the desert trial. His little comic crew news session is always good for a laugh. I guess we will get to see how he pulls off a merger with one of the big boys UAL/AA/CO without triggering the change of control. That should be fun to watch. Funny that not one employee in that crew news even brought up the LOA93 or Change of Control issue.........must be really bothering Doug if he had to talk about it!

Hate

 

[EastUS]

So I take it, you agree with the NIC Award, that you only get what you brought. Good point.

If you were furloughed, you brought nothing. If you were a 757 FO, you remained a 757 FO. Wow, amazing concept.

"If you were a 757 FO, you remained a 757 FO. " Had you simply added: "in PHX", we could all get along well I'd think. The sad and honest case isthat the west aspirations far exceed "you only get what you brought" by light years.

 

[700UW]

Scope clause on the east? lol, Now thats funny you have more RJs and props then East mainline metal.

 

[Hate2fly]

Scope clause on the east? lol, Now thats funny you have more RJs and props then East mainline metal.

700,

Don't you remember the ALPA boys always sold the pilot group on the "we need the feed" bs. Section 1 still has some goodies in there for the east pilots. That is why Dougie is miffed right now. If he wants his next big deal........he is going to have to be nice to us. 700, do you have any leverage in your work group? LOL.

Hate

 

[CallawayGolf]

700,

Don't you remember the ALPA boys always sold the pilot group on the "we need the feed" bs. Section 1 still has some goodies in there for the east pilots. That is why Dougie is miffed right now. If he wants his next big deal........he is going to have to be nice to us. 700, do you have any leverage in your work group? LOL.

Hate

Sure, okay. So you think the east pilots and USAPA have some sort of leverage with management now? Is this the next big thing USAPA plans to chum the waters with as they try to distract from the upcoming losses at the 9th and the snapback grievance? Doug not sleeping well and seeking to please the fear-inspiring east pilots? Its posts like these that keep me sufficiently entertained on this board. Please continue to post and show how vacuous, detached and desperate the east polemics have become.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If he wants his next big deal........he is going to have to be nice to us.

Yeah, that CoC language really caused the company to come crawling to the East for permission to merge with HP...

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Do you guys really have this much trouble keeping this stuff straight? The appeal was by USAPA not a west guy about the way judge Wake handled the DFR trial. The Nicolau is not being appealed. The Nicolau was not on trial. The behavior of USAPA was and they were found liable.
Yes you vote for all of the sections, that will include the arbitrated seniority list.
As far hopes resting. It is USAPA that rest it’s hope on the ninth. Because right now the west won, we hold an injunction to use the Nicolau as the seniority list. It is USAPA that hopes the ninth changes the injunction.

As far as fragmentation take a look at the latest crew news and the last section. Parker was talking about change of control. I may be hoping for fragmentation. Your contract CoC could kill any merger he spins us off to another airline we are ok. He could let the east die because they could not structure a deal. Listen to him. No CoC or no deal.

Prater is gone so is ALPA in case you missed it. Neither have any bearing. I guess unless you try and make the argument that was an ALPA deal, what is it is ALPA relevant or not. You can’t have it both ways.

Prater may have said no timeline but judge Wake may have something to say about that. The east pilots may have something to say about that after 2 years and when you lose the LOA 93 grievance.

 

[EastUS]

I may be hoping for fragmentation.

Welcome to the club.....

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Clear, so to get this correct, it wasn't about the NIC, but we spent ungodly amounts of money to tell USAPA to use a proposal because predecessor unions agreed to it, as I said what if it were arbitrated pay rates,many closed section of a joint TA were revisited by both sides and again! "WHERE ARE OUR DAMAGES?" SO your saying WE did SUE for INTENT, or as the 9th said " A MEMO" AS I said in the crew room, it will get tossed the injunction will be lifted and this group will be OUT BIG BUCKS! Have you taken a good look around and see what is going on! If you haven't, let me at least point out the obvious, 1, THE EAST IS TAKING DELIVERY AS WE SPEAK OF 2 MORE A-330's , ( to be deployed on the EAST( unless were going to STURGIS out of PHX) 2. CAL all of the sudden decides they want a contract with their pilots,( just to be nice?) probably because they need a deal going into a transaction! And DOUG's comments in CLT told me ( ESPECIALLY THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED) The EAST has bargaining power, he will cut a deal with the EAST to get a transaction! If you noticed WEst has ZERO growth and will have ZERO under "THE PLAN" Like I said we were sold a BILL OF GOODS! MM

 

[nic4us]

Clear, so to get this correct, it wasn't about the NIC, but we spent ungodly amounts of money to tell USAPA to use a proposal because predecessor unions agreed to it, as I said what if it were arbitrated pay rates,many closed section of a joint TA were revisited by both sides and again! "WHERE ARE OUR DAMAGES?" SO your saying WE did SUE for INTENT, or as the 9th said " A MEMO" AS I said in the crew room, it will get tossed the injunction will be lifted and this group will be OUT BIG BUCKS! Have you taken a good look around and see what is going on! If you haven't, let me at least point out the obvious, 1, THE EAST IS TAKING DELIVERY AS WE SPEAK OF 2 MORE A-330's , ( to be deployed on the EAST( unless were going to STURGIS out of PHX) 2. CAL all of the sudden decides they want a contract with their pilots,( just to be nice?) probably because they need a deal going into a transaction! And DOUG's comments in CLT told me ( ESPECIALLY THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED) The EAST has bargaining power, he will cut a deal with the EAST to get a transaction! If you noticed WEst has ZERO growth and will have ZERO under "THE PLAN" Like I said we were sold a BILL OF GOODS! MM

Almost correct. But it is not predecessor unions. We were in the same union. We had seperate MECs. It was the predecessor union (singular) that derived the Nic. What the DFR is about is that the new union was formed, campaigned and elected for the purpose of discriminating against a minority class. Way more than a memo. There are hours of campaign video Q&As detailing just how usapa proposed to harm the west. usapa's web site pre-election was full of just how they planned on harming the West. usapa's constitution put (harm the West) obtain a DOH seniority system, above promote safety for pete's sake.

The east has no bargaining power with the company. The company is not about to enjoin themselves with usapa as they head for slaughter in a damages trial.

The 2 new 330s are just more evidence of your continued theft.

Somebody sure has been sold a bill of goods.

 

[EastUS]

The east has no bargaining power with the company.

Indeed. It's clear to one and all that the only true "bargaining power" lies entirely in west hands.....puhleeeaze.

 

[Black Swan]

That would be great. When is the west going to get back the 20 or so aircraft and the over 200 pilots that we brought to the merger. How about all of the routes that have been transfered to the east? When do we get those back? How about sending all of those PHX out and backs that the east is doing back so we have what we brought to the merger?

How about you guys keep the 1700 furloughs that the east brought to the merger?

Look in the mirror! You laugh at LOA 93, all the while it makes it all possible for you to be taken advantage of. You reap what you sow, and you have sown a lot of bad crops.