US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[End of USAPA]

Looks like some in USAPA are jumping off the train before the wreck in January. Maybe they are a little concerned about what the company has planned to crush that little egg timer.

Maybe the company has nothing but cooperation panned with USAPA!

I know, hard to believe but the name of the game is run down the clock. Almost 5 years and counting. The east is winning each day!

Maybe next decade you all can get you're lottery ticket!

Let that timer keep on ticking! Bye bye!!!

 

[snapthis]

Maybe the company has nothing but cooperation panned with USAPA!

I know, hard to believe but the name of the game is run down the clock. Almost 5 years and counting. The east is winning each day!

Maybe next decade you all can get you're lottery ticket!

Let that timer keep on ticking! Bye bye!!!

What is the next plan in the scheme? Is it NEWSAPA?

Whatever you call it, we'll thump it and walk away laughing.

Come back when you get serious about representing all the pilots of US Airways.

Later!

 

[BoeingBoy]

With Dave C. stepping down rumor has it JA AKA Stay Safe is going to be high on the list of replacements!

A few hours before the above post didn't you say DC was stepping down because the position was being eliminated? So they're looking for replacements to fill a non-existent position. Interesting how the story changes, isn't it.....

Jim

 

[HPDriver]

The EVP position was going away anyway. Dave is a great guy with great ideas. Both Dave and Mike are heading to the same destination. Just on different highways! The BPR has been dealing with this personality issue for some time. The BPR holds all the power. Not Mike, Randy or Dave.

The EVP position was created primarily to set up the union headquarters in CLT and Dave did an excellent job. His service to this pilot group has been tremendous. As always when someone steps down another steps up!

Hate

As a matter of fact, he did say it was going away.

So what is it Hate.

Need a little time to step back and rethink your story?

 

[Ardenian]

Just some thoughts:

Let's look at Mike's accomplishments while in office.

1. Disrupted continuity of UOM committee and after 8 months, no work has been done on this document. We had the committee section in the works.
2. Very first BPR meeting, attempts to oust Dave C. Waste 1 day of a very expensive BPR meeting in Clt. Cost into 5 digits.
3. Sits around pool in PHX for a week during Addington trial with his entourage, accomplishing nothing while Dave and Rob were in the office doing work for the pilots. Also keeps secret from other officers issues surrounding the appeal.
4. Section 29 fiasco
5. Attends a bunch of CAPA meeting, essentially attending cocktail parties and a lot of face time...meet and greets and accomplishes nothing for our pilots.
6. Comes up with convoluted harassment policy for political reasons to extort individual in question to bow to his will.
7. Refuses to post expenses or calendar of activities and continues to enable whitewashed and disingenuous communications.Has no desire to survey pilots.
8. KeepsTA 8 and TA 10 grievance results secret from other officers and BPR.
9. Kicks EVP out of office, and in an act of transparency, has security locks put on his and Randy's doors. Other officers do not have access, but Natasha does.
10. Files for frivolous expenses that are already covered by stipends.
11. Comes into the office on average 1 day a week.
12. Violates the constitution on at least multiple times this writer can think of.

Anyone else?

 

[Hate2fly]

As a matter of fact, he did say it was going away.

So what is it Hate.

Need a little time to step back and rethink your story?

Yo HPDriver and BB,

It was a joke! You guys need to take a deep breath! J. Adams aka Stay Safe plays over on pilot loop. I was talking to him on the phone that night and we thought that would be a good laugh.

Happy Holidays

Hate

 

[hp_fa]

I am moving the following post over here from the Airbus Cancel's thread because, as nycbusdriver said further along in the thread, the thread had wandered.

We agree on this. I think the west, in particular, is missing that point when they think "no union" means Parker will then honor the Nicolau award religiously. It may very well be the list that the company then publishes, but when furloughs come by domicile, or by equipment, rather than following the "list," who is to protest, and on what basis.

Please tell us all what force the current east and west contracts have if there is no union. Does the contract survive such a situation without a second party? I think we all know the answer, but I don't recall you ever weighing in on this.

Absent a union, is there anything keeping the company from legally furloughing out of seniority (however that seniority they choose to define.) Can the company legally say, we are parking all the 737s next month, so all pilots currently flying that equipment will be hitting the street? Or, we are closing the DCA base, so those pilots go bye-bye?

Furloughing by the the "list" always incurs a lot of training expenses for the company. Does anyone think Parker wouldn't just opt to save that money and furlough in a way that would incur no expense?

HP_FA, please address these issues for us. If there is a legal basis for our contract surviving the absence of a certified CBA, please cite precedence or law.

My view on your question is that absent appropriate labor parties, either the union named in the contract or a successor (such as USAPA was to ALPA negotiated contracts) there is no contract and the company is free to do as it sees fit and in its own self interest. This scenario would obviously be awful for pilots because other than meeting FAA mandated requirements the company could do pretty much whatever it wanted.

I do not advocate that USAPA be demolished without a successor.

 

[HPDriver]

Yo HPDriver and BB,

It was a joke! You guys need to take a deep breath! J. Adams aka Stay Safe plays over on pilot loop. I was talking to him on the phone that night and we thought that would be a good laugh.

Happy Holidays

Hate

Some of the nonsense that comes out on these posts from you guys, its getting harder to to separate one from the other.

Happy Holidays

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Yo HPDriver and BB,

It was a joke! You guys need to take a deep breath! J. Adams aka Stay Safe plays over on pilot loop. I was talking to him on the phone that night and we thought that would be a good laugh.

Happy Holidays

Hate

YOYO, Hate:

HAHAHAHAHA.....>>>>Not.

More like you got busted again dancing with the lying king.

You need to keep your stories straight if you wish to have any credibility.

DC quit because he sees the corruption, greed, and power plays from up close and personal. I'm sure the closer one gets to Usapa Central Polit Burro, the uglier and smellier it gets. (insert holding nose emoticon here)

 

[Dogandsuds]

Looks like some in USAPA are jumping off the train before the wreck in January. Maybe they are a little concerned about what the company has planned to crush that little egg timer.

Dear Snapthis,

First, anyone not wanting Cleary in office can try to remove him, either by getting 25% petition of MIGS or get 2/3 BPR members to force a recall vote by all the MIGS. It's fairly easy to do, if you got the votes. I assume you already have 4 West BPR votes to remove him. Whether he's removed or not, USAPA will continue to move on. Like someone else said, USAPA is a product of its membership, not one or two strong-minded pilots. The power lies with the MIGS (until furloughed, I was one). They tell the BPRs what to do. If Cleary gets too far out of line, the BPRs will hear about it. If he doesn't toe their line, he could be removed. So far the only talk of that is from west pilots and the ALPA-types on the east.

While on a break from my furlough job, I stopped by the CLT office and got some insight from both sides of the EVP debate. Small, sparse quarters compared to the old ALPA digs in PIT. The debate between DC and MC is typical union. Hate2fly had it right, two differing ideas on how to get to the same goal. Both have contributed greatly to the cause. Both have their strong points and faults. Their falling-out will not bring down USAPA. Only a successful de-cert can do that.

I don't want a contract that reduces aircraft minimums to 250. That's what Kirby is all about. The West guy who said the company was carrying more aircraft than allowed under the TA was flat wrong. I'm not sure anyone called him on that, but I will now. They are at or maybe one above the limit, depending on how you count. They tested USAPA with going below the West hours limit and USAPA won that battle. You West guys should at least take recognition of that.

From my CLT visit, I learned the newest big grievance battle is over terms of closing of the LAS base. Any West guy, correct me if I got this wrong. The company wants to bring West pilots back to PHX without a displacement bid. That means COs will come back to PHX as COs, even though they have less seniority than PHX FOs who decided to stay FOs in PHX to avoid commuting to LAS to hold CO. I pulled up the West contract and LOA. The company logic, if I got it right, doesn't follow what I read, unless all the LAS flying comes back to PHX. In that case, why are they furloughing, if they got the same amount of flying? So why do I care? The more pilots working, the sooner I get a recall. I've optimistically thought that might be in mid 2013. Now I'm not so sure, especially with Kirby. I won't have a vote on Kirby, but I'll have a vote on USAPA if it comes to that. I doubt it will.

Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hate2fly had it right, two differing ideas on how to get to the same goal.

Shame Hate didn't say that...

Interesting too that you speak of DC & MC's ideas of how to get to the same goal - I thought MC followed the instructions of the BPR. Isn't that what everyone says?

The West guy who said the company was carrying more aircraft than allowed under the TA was flat wrong.

Forgetting the 15 E190's?

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

YOYO, Hate:

HAHAHAHAHA.....>>>>Not.

More like you got busted again dancing with the lying king.

You need to keep your stories straight if you wish to have any credibility.

DC quit because he sees the corruption, greed, and power plays from up close and personal. I'm sure the closer one gets to Usapa Central Polit Burro, the uglier and smellier it gets. (insert holding nose emoticon here)

 

[Black Swan]

You guys need a serious wakeup. The line guy is not really sweating all the intricacies of USAPA HQ. All we give a crap about is NEVER combining with you, OK? As long as we never vote on a combined TA, we are cool with pretty much anything that goes on there. Who really has the straight story anyway? The bottom line is this- you guys think you are going to come in here with a guy who was in elementary school when I was hired, and place him on top of me, and thousands like me. I say this- it ain't gonna happen. I certainly would not have the cojones to go on top of some TWA or Pan Am pilot hired 15 yrs head of me no matter what some old geezer said if I was applying there or merged with them as a new hire in the early eighties. I just would not expect it, nor take it if it was offered.It isn't right. It was a windfall. You guys are the spawn of some next gen strangeness that entitles you to everything in the world. I like Dave C, but I really don't know what happened.I really don't care, but thank him for his time. Obviously there was a disagreement. It ain't the end or USAPA or the world, as much as you think or want it to be. I know this- I am a standard line driver, and have been an ALPA member until recently for 30 some yrs. They totally lost their way with selling us out. therefore they were replaced. Simple as that. Nicolau was the last and final straw. Snap this- you pretty much sum up why we really don't care what happens to you, and don't want anything to do with you- much less count on you to even to begin to call minimums or do a walk around. It is all about keeping us down, and never doing anything to even begin to get any parity. We tried with the profit sharing, and you threw us under the bus. Thank you. Now we know how you stand, and will deal with you. I will make sure to get this posted with all the senior guys to show them what the junior guys face. It is worth a NO vote on any deal just to let you guys know how we feel about you in the final hour. You seriously underestimate us with your X Box mentality. Who cares about what is going down with a bunch of politicians anyhow? The final deal is this- you get the NO vote on any deal which allows the combination of the two pilot groups. That my friends, is PRICELESS............

 

[luvthe9]

You guys need a serious wakeup. .............................. That my friends, is PRICELESS............

Exellent post which sums up how most of the senior people feel.

 

[N924PS]

Exellent post which sums up how most of the senior people feel.

If a Tenative Agreement is ever offered that contains appropriate pay, work rules, and vacation that improve the lot of all USAirways pilots, it will pass. Even with the Nicolau Award in Section 22.

Having said that, enjoy No Nic and LOA 93 for at least 2-4 more years absent a consolidation, since the company has no interest in concluding negotiations. But during that time, with no attrition and most of the Age 65 attrition eventually coming from the East F/O's, no upgrades and status quo bid position for the duration.

Priceless, indeed.