US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[N924PS]

Learn to live with what you have. It is all you are going to get

Hate

You should take your own advice.

Except it could cost you a bit more when it comes to pay damages/fees to the West pilots.

 

[Hate2fly]

What I don't understand is why the east continues to live in the past and not accept the present. Look at what you wrote.

In 1990 20 years ago. When you lost your pension 6 years ago. That is history that has nothing to do with the west or the current situation that we find ourselves in today. It is time to get over it and live in the now. You have been abused by management. Why? I thought you guys had a strong and resolved pilot group. How has management been able to abuse you all of these years? Every AAA ALPA and now usapa update talks tough and pounds the table demanding things. What has happened? All we hear about is what victims the east is and how the world has abused you poor folks.

Not our problem don't want to hear about it anymore. How is it that US Airways was this premiere airline and made all of this money but had the worst management has been on a death spiral for 20 years? Reality does not if the image.

Trying to get the west to make up for your losses is not something we are going to allow.

My concern now is if there is a merger you east guys are going to try and get the next group to pay for your perceived loses also. Except this time you will not be the majority and you all will continue the poor me victim attitude demanded unobtainable thing. You guys remind me of the LAS gambler blaming the casino for his losses. That the world is against him, the game is rigged, someone else got an advantage, just one big score and everything will be right again. Or the guy upside down in his house. Yes you might have paid $750,000 for it and you owe $700,000 but someone will only pay $350,000.

The world and the industry has changed, change with it or leave. US air will never be the airline that it was. Once you all accept that, it is going to be easier to make improvements. You guys need to let go of the past. You quoted Black Swan, will you accept the advice?

Clear,

My post to you was that we have been there done that and we all have the t-shirt! We have been living the new reality for the last 5 years and we are all doing just fine. Some people just have to live it to understand it! We understand that less than 3 years from now we will be rocketing up our list. We will never let guys like you take our retirement attrition. You really have been a great selling point for us back east..........you should see the reaction when we talk about the west posters!

Hate

 

[N924PS]

We will never let guys like you take our retirement attrition. You really have been a great selling point for us back east..........you should see the reaction when we talk about the west posters!

Hate

I'll bet the reaction in PHX/LAS crewrooms regarding the East posters is just as telling.

 

[HPDriver]

Clear,

My post to you was that we have been there done that and we all have the t-shirt! We have been living the new reality for the last 5 years and we are all doing just fine. Some people just have to live it to understand it! We understand that less than 3 years from now we will be rocketing up our list. We will never let guys like you take our retirement attrition. You really have been a great selling point for us back east..........you should see the reaction when we talk about the west posters!

Hate

You won't be rocketing up anywhere.

Anyway, USAPA is obviously very unsure of where the vote would go. There only defense is to avoid a TA that goes out to the pilots because they know this pilot group may actually vote it onto the property.

And no, you're no doing "just fine". Pilots over there are hurting and are very disenchanted with USAPA.

Its all coming to an end.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

My post to you was that we have been there done that and we all have the t-shirt! We have been living the new reality for the last 5 years and we are all doing just fine. Some people just have to live it to understand it! We understand that less than 3 years from now we will be rocketing up our list. We will never let guys like you take our retirement attrition. You really have been a great selling point for us back east..........you should see the reaction when we talk about the west posters!

Hate

Being there and doing that, great when are you going to learn from the experience? What US Airways used to be, so what it is not that now who cares? Happy that the last 5 years have been so good for all of you. The next couple are not going to be so good.

Reality!

It is not YOUR list, it is our list and our company. I did not want to be involved with us air and the disaster that it was but here we are.

I am glad that I have been helpful to the guys back east. Someone needs to inform the apathy back east your leadership fails to address any reality.

Same back here where the latest east rant and outrageous theory is floated. I really like the reactions from the pilots at other carriers that have no dog in this fight.

 

[BoeingBoy]

We will never let guys like you take our retirement attrition.

It's a shame you (generic East) wouldn't settle for that and widebody protection during the negotiations - all the money and time wasted over the last two years probably wouldn't have been necessary. The merger committee tried to tell you and you wouldn't listen.

Instead, you wanted the whole DOH pie - the East and West attrition, the West to make up for the misfortune you'd experienced in the past, etc - and here you are...now arguing what's really important. It should have been the important thing all along but you insisted on more. And now that you've finally decided what's really important, there is no West BPR, no West MC, no West anything to negotiate with.

You wanted all the marbles...till you lost. Now you plead to keep your aggie but it is too late.

Jim

 

[AWE Dog]

I'll bet the reaction in PHX/LAS crewrooms regarding the East posters is just as telling.

Humm, JS if you bid into PHX with the Nic award, is it possible you would be #1 in the base?

 

[Metroyet]

It's a shame you (generic East) wouldn't settle for that and widebody protection during the negotiations - all the money and time wasted over the last two years probably wouldn't have been necessary. The merger committee tried to tell you and you wouldn't listen.

Instead, you wanted the whole DOH pie - the East and West attrition, the West to make up for the misfortune you'd experienced in the past, etc - and here you are...now arguing what's really important. It should have been the important thing all along but you insisted on more. And now that you've finally decided what's really important, there is no West BPR, no West MC, no West anything to negotiate with.

You wanted all the marbles...till you lost. Now you plead to keep your aggie but it is too late.

Jim

PERFECT RE-CAP!!!

 

[nic4us]

Humm, JS if you bid into PHX with the Nic award, is it possible you would be #1 in the base?

So what if he is? Seems to me that is his contractual right. By the way even the number 1 PHX guy could not be numero uno in CLT or PHL or DCA.

 

[AWE Dog]

It's a shame you (generic East) wouldn't settle for that and widebody protection during the negotiations - all the money and time wasted over the last two years probably wouldn't have been necessary. The merger committee tried to tell you and you wouldn't listen.

Instead, you wanted the whole DOH pie - the East and West attrition, the West to make up for the misfortune you'd experienced in the past, etc - and here you are...now arguing what's really important. It should have been the important thing all along but you insisted on more. And now that you've finally decided what's really important, there is no West BPR, no West MC, no West anything to negotiate with.

You wanted all the marbles...till you lost. Now you plead to keep your aggie but it is too late.

Jim

I want nothing from the west, never did. But I do want the east attrition. Put up a 15 year Mississippi fence. The word fence is almost as bad as DOH with the west. Not wanting a fence just proves to me who really wants the whole pie.

 

[Hate2fly]

It's a shame you (generic East) wouldn't settle for that and widebody protection during the negotiations - all the money and time wasted over the last two years probably wouldn't have been necessary. The merger committee tried to tell you and you wouldn't listen.

Instead, you wanted the whole DOH pie - the East and West attrition, the West to make up for the misfortune you'd experienced in the past, etc - and here you are...now arguing what's really important. It should have been the important thing all along but you insisted on more. And now that you've finally decided what's really important, there is no West BPR, no West MC, no West anything to negotiate with.

You wanted all the marbles...till you lost. Now you plead to keep your aggie but it is too late.

Jim

Jim,

I have not seen one east guy trying to take anything from a west guy. In case you missed it Jim, that is why we are still operating separate lists.

This is a result of a failed merger process from the old bargaining agent. Take a good look at the Air Canada merger abortion and the Atlas/Polar disaster. This merger was just another example of a flawed product...........since our little disaster they have now changed the merger policy again.

Priceless!

Hate

 

[BoeingBoy]

I want nothing from the west, never did. But I do want the east attrition.

You should have convinced more of your East peers then - look at all the trouble it would have possibly saved. Of course, attrition seems to be the battle cry of most if not all East posters at this stage - including those who demanded nothing short of DOH during the negotiations/arbitration. A look back at the posts will confirm that. Heck, just look at the filings and oral arguments from the DFR trial and appeal - it's still DOH.

The problem with fences like the one you mentioned is that it doesn't solve the problem - the 2 sides are still separated. You could have easily protected your attrition (and the widebody flying) without going to such extremes. The opposite is the case for the fences USAPA offers - all smoke. How many times did a West poster say something like "If the fences offer so much protection, you take the Nic with those fences" and not get a single taker.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have not seen one east guy trying to take anything from a west guy.

Don't know how you missed the whole "Nothing less than DOH" thing...

In case you missed it Jim, that is why we are still operating separate lists.

Cute - here I thought the integration was complete and have only continuing using East and West out of habit - not.

This is a result of a failed merger process from the old bargaining agent.

Hardly - this is a result of both sides agreeing to a process then one side not liking the result and using anything possible to subvert the result. Like I said, you (East) wanted it all - all attrition, all those "punks" out west out of those jobs they weren't entitled to have after "only" 7-10 years, everything. You didn't get it and threw a tantrum - it's everyone's fault but your own. And now you claim to only want what could have been yours under that process you complain about - your attrition.

That truly is priceless!

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

Don't know how you missed the whole "Nothing less than DOH" thing...



Cute - here I thought the integration was complete and have only continuing using East and West out of habit - not.



Hardly - this is a result of both sides agreeing to a process then one side not liking the result and using anything possible to subvert the result. Like I said, you (East) wanted it all - all attrition, all those "punks" out west out of those jobs they weren't entitled to have after "only" 7-10 years, everything. You didn't get it and threw a tantrum - it's everyone's fault but your own. And now you claim to only want what could have been yours under that process you complain about - your attrition.

That truly is priceless!

Jim

Jim,

You are definately the best! We can't get anything by you!

Hate

 

[HPDriver]

I want nothing from the west, never did. But I do want the east attrition. Put up a 15 year Mississippi fence. The word fence is almost as bad as DOH with the west. Not wanting a fence just proves to me who really wants the whole pie.

Fences were offered by the west and turned down by the east MC at the direction of the MEC.

Reason?

They wanted the MC to come back with nothing less than DOH.

So it was the east that wanted the "whole pie."