US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Waketurbulence]

Give it a rest.

Focus more on how you're going to deal with your disappointment when you don't get your snapbacks instead of asking these stupid question.

I think he's working on seahams next argument for the Supreme Court...

 

[cynic]

I think he's working on seahams next argument for the Supreme Court...

Either way, they're building one hell of an army of straw men.

 

[Metroyet]

nevermind

 

[End of USAPA]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter. YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!
Fine, lets get rid of USAPA. it was only a logical step after ALPO and if we can't get Nic changed with USAPA then so what? We have a plan b. We will move on to something else. Wake can injunct all he wants but guess what, I have a vote and nothing can change that! We have won! Almost 2 years with USAPA and we have gone nowhere. Heck, LCC is still furloughing on the west, even when the only planes leaving are on the east. Doesn't that tell you something??? IT SHOULD!
Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Megasnoop was right about you guys.
Merry Christmas-- here comes a snowball!!!

 

[Hate2fly]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter. YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!
Fine, lets get rid of USAPA. it was only a logical step after ALPO and if we can't get Nic changed with USAPA then so what? We have a plan b. We will move on to something else. Wake can injunct all he wants but guess what, I have a vote and nothing can change that! We have won! Almost 2 years with USAPA and we have gone nowhere. Heck, LCC is still furloughing on the west, even when the only planes leaving are on the east. Doesn't that tell you something??? IT SHOULD!
Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Megasnoop was right about you guys.
Merry Christmas-- here comes a snowball!!!

End of,

Check this out! The Atlas and Polar guys have been at this since July 12, 2001.

So much for Final and Binding!

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/g...ad.main/518667/

Hate

 

[Metroyet]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter. YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!
Fine, lets get rid of USAPA. it was only a logical step after ALPO and if we can't get Nic changed with USAPA then so what? We have a plan b. We will move on to something else. Wake can injunct all he wants but guess what, I have a vote and nothing can change that! We have won! Almost 2 years with USAPA and we have gone nowhere. Heck, LCC is still furloughing on the west, even when the only planes leaving are on the east. Doesn't that tell you something??? IT SHOULD!
Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Megasnoop was right about you guys.
Merry Christmas-- here comes a snowball!!!

Everybody has a vote. Yours isn't magic, or special, or more important than any others. Watch in disbelief, when you get outvoted.

 

[Flippin43]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter. YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!
Fine, lets get rid of USAPA. it was only a logical step after ALPO and if we can't get Nic changed with USAPA then so what? We have a plan b. We will move on to something else. Wake can injunct all he wants but guess what, I have a vote and nothing can change that! We have won! Almost 2 years with USAPA and we have gone nowhere. Heck, LCC is still furloughing on the west, even when the only planes leaving are on the east. Doesn't that tell you something??? IT SHOULD!
Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Megasnoop was right about you guys.
Merry Christmas-- here comes a snowball!!!

J****,

And you said this case wasn't ripe!! You just explained to the uninformed, the things that make it ripe now and on the off chance the scotus refuses to hear it.

Plan B,

You birthed usapa and yet your already are plotting to rid us of it. Thank You for that by the way. If you think no union will get you what you want, undercutting fellow airmen etc. Try again. This just does not happen at places like Jet Blue and other non-union carriers. And beside wouldn't you say that in that event, if the company used the Nic List, they would be shielded from litigation as it was a result of an agreed upon process (probably the last time we did agree) and its the product of a Neutral. So help me understand again how no union will get you DOH.

F

 

[nycbusdriver]

Like I said, find a legal marriage document with the words "till death do us part" on it. Until you do that your example and question are nonsense.

Jim

"Till death do us part" is an oath sworn before witnesses and a civil authority (or a religious authority given civil privileges by the state for this occasion.) Do civil oaths mean nothing? Is that what you are saying? If it's not in writing, it's not binding?

A marriage license is just that. A license. It's not a contract.

The contract is not bound until the ceremony, and the ONLY requirements for that contract to be valid are:

1) exchange of marriage vows
2) pronouncement by the official witness (judge, mayor, clergy, notary, etc.)

The official then signs the marriage license and returns it to the court clerk as a written confirmation that the two criteria have been met.

 

[nic4us]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing.

Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Here comes a snowball!!!

Although it is a bad analogy, I will take the bait. yes, marriage is final and binding.

A nutball like Wake, huh? Yeah, ok, you planned on failing from the van ride home. Great plan. Your plan on going to the SCOTUS is somewhat premature, but yes usapa will use dues money to pay for that. First, lets just wait and see, the 9th may overturn Wake, no need for SCOTUS then. However, once AOL gets legal fees attached, and the east pilots find themselves paying the West's lawyers so the West can win damages, you will find yourself in the predicament the West has been in for some time now. You will be paying the bill for your own prosecution, only unlike what usapa tried to do to the West, we have a legitimate legal ground to stand on.

You know what they say about a snowballs chance?

 

[N924PS]

We have a plan b.

"Plan B is: We have no plan B......."

Hmmm....

 

[cleardirect]

Take a step back and understand what he is saying. Nothing in life is "final and binding". Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter. YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!
Fine, lets get rid of USAPA. it was only a logical step after ALPO and if we can't get Nic changed with USAPA then so what? We have a plan b. We will move on to something else. Wake can injunct all he wants but guess what, I have a vote and nothing can change that! We have won! Almost 2 years with USAPA and we have gone nowhere. Heck, LCC is still furloughing on the west, even when the only planes leaving are on the east. Doesn't that tell you something??? IT SHOULD!
Our plan b is working very well. Bradford knew what he was up against and Seham did too. we were always figuring a nutbal like Wake may come along because as you saw with OJ the courts sometimes get it wrong. We will take Addington to SCOTUS and use YOUR $$$ to help our case!!!

Megasnoop was right about you guys.
Merry Christmas-- here comes a snowball!!!

2010 is going to be a disappointing year for you and the minority of people that think like you.

I find it sad but amazing that you think that you have won anything. Because of a selfishness and sense of entitlement east pilots have traded the honor and integrity of their word in exchange for the hope of stealing something that was never yours. I guess that it is possible to justify anything in ones mind but as we are seeing the rest of the world sees your actions for what they are.

Again I find it sad that certain east pilots have fallen so far from decency and honor that they have to justify their position by tearing down others. By name calling, calling a well respected arbitrator an senile old man, their fellow pilots rookies, inexperienced, a federal judge biased and a “nutballâ€￾, accusing the ninth circuit of being favorable to the minority simply because of geographic location, making false accusation and filing outrageous charges against pilots. These are not the action of honorable pilots fighting for a moral victory. These are the actions of desperate people ruining there groups reputation or in this case I guess just confirming to the rest of the industry who and what you all are.

I say all because it is a minority of east pilots that think this way but the rest have allowed the radical minority to operate this way and drag the former Us Airways pilots reputation even further down into the gutter. History will be written and it will not be kind to the east pilots, Lee Seham or Mike Cleary.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The official then signs the marriage license and returns it to the court clerk as a written confirmation that the two criteria have been met.

So you're saying the Nic is the result of a contract and is final and binding. Thanks.

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

2010 is going to be a disappointing year for you and the minority of people that think like you.



I say all because it is a minority of east pilots that think this way but the rest have allowed the radical minority to operate this way and drag the former Us Airways pilots reputation even further down into the gutter. History will be written and it will not be kind to the east pilots, Lee Seham or Mike Cleary.

Clear,

Your statement above shows how far detached from the east pilot group you really are. I was known as one of the most radical guys on this property at one time............when I show up for work or attend union meetings now I don't even have to say anything. There is so much anger in this group back here and it wasn't the Nic that created it. It was the loss of the pension and the pay cuts and the constant abuse by every management team that has stepped on this property for decades. The Nic was the straw that broke the camels back. We don't care what you think of us. This group doesn't want anything from you. Every pilot on the east list remembers when we had 454 airplanes in 1990 and during the Wolf era 420 airplanes. There will not be any future growth at this airline.......ever........this airline will merge with someone in the not to distant future. When that merger happens there will not be any growth! I still love what the Black Swan said. Learn to live with what you have. It is all you are going to get.


Hate

 

[HPDriver]

Nothing. You can talk all you want about agreements and blah blah blah, but getting those said agreements into action is a completely different matter.

So then I assume your argument holds true with your snapbacks as well?

YOu may have Nic, but good luck getting it implemented. As long as we are the majority you will NEVER see Nicolau. NEVER!

That's just it, the "majority" that put USAPA on property did so with the understanding that the new union would put a new contract into their hands without Nic in a short timeframe.

That, obviously, didn't happen. In fact, NOTHING has happened.

So the angry FO's now see their voting bloc disintegrating and will soon find themselves as a still radical, yet politically neutered bloc.

And that means NIC. So go ahead and VNIIMN, but it won't matter. Nic is coming and he'll be well before your retirements kick in to high gear.

And Merry Christmas!!!

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

Your statement above shows how far detached from the east pilot group you really are. I was known as one of the most radical guys on this property at one time............when I show up for work or attend union meetings now I don't even have to say anything. There is so much anger in this group back here and it wasn't the Nic that created it. It was the loss of the pension and the pay cuts and the constant abuse by every management team that has stepped on this property for decades. The Nic was the straw that broke the camels back. We don't care what you think of us. This group doesn't want anything from you. Every pilot on the east list remembers when we had 454 airplanes in 1990 and during the Wolf era 420 airplanes. There will not be any future growth at this airline.......ever........this airline will merge with someone in the not to distant future. When that merger happens there will not be any growth! I still love what the Black Swan said. Learn to live with what you have. It is all you are going to get.


Hate

What I don't understand is why the east continues to live in the past and not accept the present. Look at what you wrote.

In 1990 20 years ago. When you lost your pension 6 years ago. That is history that has nothing to do with the west or the current situation that we find ourselves in today. It is time to get over it and live in the now. You have been abused by management. Why? I thought you guys had a strong and resolved pilot group. How has management been able to abuse you all of these years? Every AAA ALPA and now usapa update talks tough and pounds the table demanding things. What has happened? All we hear about is what victims the east is and how the world has abused you poor folks.

Not our problem don't want to hear about it anymore. How is it that US Airways was this premiere airline and made all of this money but had the worst management has been on a death spiral for 20 years? Reality does not if the image.

Trying to get the west to make up for your losses is not something we are going to allow.

My concern now is if there is a merger you east guys are going to try and get the next group to pay for your perceived loses also. Except this time you will not be the majority and you all will continue the poor me victim attitude demanded unobtainable thing. You guys remind me of the LAS gambler blaming the casino for his losses. That the world is against him, the game is rigged, someone else got an advantage, just one big score and everything will be right again. Or the guy upside down in his house. Yes you might have paid $750,000 for it and you owe $700,000 but someone will only pay $350,000.

The world and the industry has changed, change with it or leave. US air will never be the airline that it was. Once you all accept that, it is going to be easier to make improvements. You guys need to let go of the past. You quoted Black Swan, will you accept the advice?