US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[HPDriver]

Lump sum $10,000 this year!

Lump sum $10,000 next year!

Hate

CLT just put this out:

"As we near the end of the pay freeze and reductions whose totals reflect a value of between $400,000 to $600,000 of individual pilot pay cuts delivered to management in LOA 93(close to 2 billion in total cost savings over the last 5 years)..."

Hate, you make me laugh too!

Enjoy your $20 grand. Its was your money to begin with.

 

[HPDriver]

MDA, Snapback, LOA 84... good times coming in '10

Time to turn and burn in the west!

From CLT:

"As we move into 2010 we find ourselves once again at the mercy of the grievance process as management attempts to delay, and if successful in grievance, not properly pay us for our services (worth)."

Two things I pointed out:

1. The rhetoric coming out of USAPA has taken a more cautious tone. As I posted previously, TP has stated that winning this grievance will be a long shot - at best. Looks like CLT is confirming this.

2. After the grievance is heard, it will be a long time before the arbitrator puts anything out. And I've also stated that winning a grievance is only one part. Getting the company to comply is the other part. And with such a toothless union on property, Kirby's "0% chance" statement is going to hold true.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee in the east!

 

[boeingplt]

Read the most current usapa update and I have a question regarding the east scope language.

It says "if any pilot on the then current system seniority list will be furloughed".

Is usapa arguing that the Nic list can be used to enforce this portion of the east contract. I see no other way to make the language enforcable because the only system(singular) seniority list the company has is the Nic.

Thanks, usapa, knew you would eventually see it my way.

Actually it doesn't say system seniority list, it says System Seniority List. Do you know the difference? I'll give you some time to think about it beyond the point of simply replying with a cheeky response.

 

[cleardirect]

I've never heard of a group that was so bent on keeping another group from getting a pay raise, LOA84/93. They fought us in pay parity before the NIC as well. The company's best friends. Anger, bittereness comes out of every post.

Are you talking about the east pilots and the constant mantra “I will never vote for a contract with the Nicolau in itâ€￾? (pay raise)

LOA84/93. They fought us in pay parity before the NIC as well. The company's best friends. Anger, bittereness comes out of every post.

Do you really think that the west supporting or fighting pay parity or LOA 93 will change the company’s decision to increase the east pay?

I'm not addressing this to anyone, but to think about the possibilities. If the company really did send its heavy legal hitters to the appeal, even though they're not a party. Why? USAPA is in Appeals Court in Richmond 1st week of Feb on the RICO case. Why? Company wants Kirby proposal. Why? Phil C finally served subpoena at the end of the jetway. Why?

First your information is wrong. The oral arguments are at the end of March not first week of Feb. The company has nothing to do with the RICO suit and the court sets the time frame. Not sure what that has to do with any conspiracy. The only thing the timing has to do with is moveing the counter suit along.

Why the Kirby proposal? Because it is the cheapest offer the company thinks they can get away with. Phil C. so what, they have been looking for him for months he finally got caught. Again nothing to do with the company or any sale of the company. The MDA suit is still in discovery and depositions. A trial date has still not been set. I am still looking for an explaination of how the MDA suit is going to go from asking for $175,000,000 to changing the Nicolau. No answer yet.

Now a couple of questions back.

What are the east pilots going to do when the countdown clock hits zero on Dec 31, 2009? Anything?
What are the east pilots going to do when the company does not pay the new made up LOA 93 snap back rates? Nothing.
What are the east pilots going to do when the ninth rules in favor of the west pilots? Call the court names?
What are the east pilots going to do when as the CLT update says lose the LAO 93 grievance? More strongly owrded letters and call for Parker head?

As we move into 2010 we find ourselves once again at the mercy of the grievance process as management attempts to delay, and if successful in grievance, not properly pay us for our services (worth).

That is not a vote of confidence for winning the grievance. That is telling you that usapa is going to lose the grievance. But you guys are going to follow a failed leadership all the way to the end right.

What are the east pilots going to do when the RICO suit is dismissed AGAIN? File another?
What are the east pilots going to do when the company sells the other 15 190’s?
What are the east pilots going to do when they become the minority in the next merger? Stop saying that majority rules?

How long are the east pilots going to allow Cleary and Mowery to drive this train wreck?

I'm not a conspiracy dot-connector, but I'll say this, 1st and 3rd whys above add up to one conclusion: the company needs this resolved and a contract in place for a potential sale. The Kirby language allows the company to reduce aircraft to 250, about 70 below the TA. That could be a reduction of over 800 pilots. With Nic in the contract, we know where most furloughs will come from.

I rest my case.

Sincerely,

Dogandsuds

 

[luvn737s]

Enjoy your $20 grand. Its was your money to begin with.

SAT prep question of the day:

Lump Sum payout is to Union Turkey as USAPA is to______________?

 

[luvn737s]

Jim,

You almost have 10,100 posts........sad

Actually it's the only evidence yet that everyone in the east is not a Seham Stepford.

Don't hate reason and logic, embrace them.

 

[End of USAPA]

SAT prep question of the day:

Lump Sum payout is to Union Turkey as USAPA is to______________?

OK I'll bite. The answer is "End of" HA HA

Just what you wanted. Jungle rules. No nic. We each get our attrition.
PHX just gets smaller, CLT and PHL keep getting bigger.

We tried to help you guys out west. You put yourselves in your own precarious position.

All the best for tomorrow!

 

[luvn737s]

One day of flying with an educated east pilot and your nephew will see the light.

"Capt'n, why are we in the mud? An arbitration put us here? I better call ground and explain."

"Hey cappy, why don't you wait to put your gun BANG away.

"No cap'n I don't have another dollar for the van driver. Why should I vote down a pay raise again?

"I promise I'll never give up the fight. OK, pinky promise."

 

[cleardirect]

OK I'll bite. The answer is "End of" HA HA

Just what you wanted. Jungle rules. No nic. We each get our attrition.
PHX just gets smaller, CLT and PHL keep getting bigger.

We tried to help you guys out west. You put yourselves in your own precarious position.

All the best for tomorrow!

Please forgive me if I don't consider sticking a knife in my back as helping me out.

Pop quiz! If the RICO defendants were accused of RICO because they "wanted to destroy usapa" but did not succeed but the east pilots manage to destroy usapa would that not make the east pilot guilty of RICO not the west pilots?

Show your work.

 

[OTTER574]

SAT prep question of the day:

Lump Sum payout is to Union Turkey as USAPA is to______________?

good "UNION PILOT" 's fire/recall lee seham, mike cleary and randy mowrey

 

[HPDriver]

East pilots don't make verbal threats on talk sites like west pilots do.

Actually, they do.

Now if I could only figure out what a "talk site" was.

 

[cleardirect]

East pilots don't participate in poopie grams sent in the post office mail like you guys out west do. East pilots don't jam phone lines to disturb union business like west pilots do. East pilots don't make verbal threats on talk sites like west pilots do.
West pilots and especially the cactus 18 criminals deserve wjat awaits them!

End of the poem!

Good sir you have just made false accusations. Those charges were dismissed with prejudice in a federal court. There is no evidence or conviction that any of the defendants did any of that. Even though it is being appealed in the legal view the defendants are not guilty now.

Calling someone a criminal knowing that it is false could be very expensive. I suggest that you retract that statement.

SLANDER - A false defamation (expressed in spoken words, signs, or gestures) which injures the character or reputation of the person defamed; distinguished from libel.

In law, defamation—also called calumny, vilification, slander (for spoken words), and libel (for written or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).

In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. "Unlike [with] libel, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[2]

False light laws are "intended primarily to protect the plaintiff's mental or emotional well-being."[3] If a publication of information is false, then a tort of defamation might have occurred. If that communication is not technically false but is still misleading, then a tort of false light might have occurred.[3]

In most civil law jurisdictions, defamation is dealt with as a crime rather than a tort[4].

 

[Edward]

Folks :
I've just gone through here & deleted comments that should not have been made. TAKE THIS STUFF TO PM IF YOU MUST. The next personal comment attack is going to get you time off. You all are grown up. Please think before you post.

Happy holidays to all. Now play nice. Thank you.

 

[nic4us]

Actually it doesn't say system seniority list, it says System Seniority List. Do you know the difference? I'll give you some time to think about it beyond the point of simply replying with a cheeky response.

Actually, it says "then current System Seniority List" a future tense description, and perhaps my understanding is wrong, so please enlighten me, what is the "current System Seniority List" at the time of these potential furloughs?

 

[boeingplt]

Actually, it says "then current System Seniority List" a future tense description, and perhaps my understanding is wrong, so please enlighten me, what is the "current System Seniority List" at the time of these potential furloughs?

The capitalization makes it a defined term so it only refers to the list(s) that are contained in the contract(s). Sections 22, east and west respectively, state (paraphrasing) "the System Seniority List shall be the list contained in this agreement". Nic is not a System Seniority List because it is not contained in any ratified Section 22. You can say what you want about the chances of that ever happening but this is a plain fact.