US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[luvn737s]

Excepting another merger I am sure we will be keeping our current contract for the next five years. (Barring the liquidation of USAirways.)

Will you be wondering what those cards are, that pilots will be handing out in the terminals and crew rooms come April?

Got that nifty box handy?

 

[luvn737s]

Unfortunately for your dreams of widebody flying, geography and staffing requirements negate any possible benefits the company may get by switching the widebody flying to the west list.

If the "union" goes away, the company's obligation to abide by the TA, and it's restrictions on opening crew bases disappears as well.

Take a look at what happened with SwissAir and Swiss or Midwest and Republic and you'll see how US would exploit the opportunity to utilize a lower labor cost option.

This is not to say that the west pilots would want to be used by the company, just a word to the "wise" for those who would think that they can continue their self-serving agenda without consequence.

Step one - DUMP USAPA!

 

[aquagreen73s]

I think you're missing the underlying purpose of those contemplating no union; the danger you outline is exactly the goal they seek. Why? Because it inflicts the maximum amount of harm on the West. It's all about the West. Those few, and I'll emphasize that's it's a select number, have hated the West since day 1. I have no idea why, nor do I care, but that is what motivates them. Diabolical, isn't it.

 

[Hawkhunter]

option.

This is not to say that the west pilots would want to be used by the company, just a word to the "wise" for those who would think that they can continue their self-serving agenda without consequence.

Step one - DUMP USAPA!

Another words, "We dont want to be used by the company but we will scab at any chance we can to get your seats".

 

[luvn737s]

More like, "Wake up and dump USAPA" since you refuse to fix it and there are a growing number of naieve west pilots who overestimate the number of rational pilots in the east. They cling to the uprising of some silent majority to fix this problem.

 

[Pi brat]

Still again, why was the Nicolau list not challenged on this basis outright in May of 2007 or before.

F

It wasn't ripe? Sorry, that word hasn't been used in about ten minutes and couldn't resist.

 

[hp_fa]

As long as there is a union, the company must abide by the contract. Absent a union, there is no obligation by the company to follow any part of the contract. A contract must have at least two parties for it to be valid. If one party goes away (USAPA?), there is no contract.

Watch out what you wish for. You might want to think that scenario all the way through.

 

[luvn737s]

The elusive alternative is that the BPR directs Cleary to state that there are not two USAirways pilot groups. Only one. And to that end they will abandon all lawsuits pending against their own pilots and instead devote full resources to completing a contract that fulfills the obligations they inherited and serves the interests of ALL US pilots.

Seham and Parker will need changes of underwear if that ever occurs.

 

[cleardirect]

The Nicolau (maybe) will reside in the contract, and only in the contract. The injunction only deals with the contract. The company was not enjoined, USAPA was. (As proof, had the judge enjoined the company, you would see the furloughs coming in a very different way. You don't see that, do you?) As long as there is a union, the company must abide by the contract. Absent a union, there is no obligation by the company to follow any part of the contract. A contract must have at least two parties for it to be valid. If one party goes away (USAPA?), there is no contract.

Wrong again oh driver of the bus.

Read the cover of your contract. My contract says.

Agreement between America West Airlines inc.and the pilots in the service of America West Inc. as represented by the Airline Pilots association, International

Is my contract still valid? America West airlines went a way ALPA went away. Using your logic I have no contract.

Better rethink your position because it is wrong.

The injunction says:

A. Immediately, and in good faith, make all reasonable efforts to negotiate and
implement a single collective bargaining agreement with US Airways that will

implement the Nicolau Award seniority proposal unmodified, according to its terms;
B. Make all reasonable efforts to support and defend the seniority rights provided
by or arising from the Nicolau Award in negotiations with US Airways; and

It appears that the company is a party to the injunction. So even if the current bargaining agent collapses under it's our mismanagement. The company and all of the pilots will be working under the Nicolau.

 

[nic4us]

Another words, "We dont want to be used by the company but we will scab at any chance we can to get your seats".

First, they are not your seats, true you have temporarily misappropriated them from West pilots, particulary hard hit is our out of seniority furloughs, but consider them on loan, and we are coming to collect.

Second, the January PHX A320 schedules are out, and it appears that the company is somewhat overstaffed with reserves, wonder why that is?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Agreement between America West Airlines inc.and the pilots in the service of America West Inc. as represented by the Airline Pilots association, International

Is my contract still valid? America West airlines went a way ALPA went away. Using your logic I have no contract.

You're not really serious with that explanation, are you?

Federal law recognizes that USAPA became the CBA in place of ALPA.

Contracts were signed wherein the corporation of American West Airlines (I did it on purpose) was subsumed by some or other USAirways holding company. It then assumes responsbility for your contract.

Nice try though. I'd love to see what some law professor might say to a student who stood up in class and offered that explanation.

If USAPA goes away, there is no entity to assume the CBA. Hence, your contract, and mine, are meaningless. We are employees at will. It's our equivalent of the "nuclear option." Are we willing to do it? Quite possibly, IMHO.

Oh, and the company is NOT enjoined by the court, no matter how much you wish it were. I believe Wake dismissed the company from the suit on the first day, and they have simply been bystanders. The wording of the injunction is specifically directed at USAPA, and USAPA's negotiations with the company.

I've said it before. If the company was enjoined by Wakes decision, the Nicolau would have been in effect already. It's not.

 

[nic4us]

Unfortunately for your dreams of widebody flying, geography and staffing requirements negate any possible benefits the company may get by switching the widebody flying to the west list.

The TA allows the opening and closing of domiciles, and there is nothing to stop the company from opening a West 330 domicile in a garden spot like, oh, say PHL. You are assuming West list means PHX, not necessarily so. West list means former AWA pilots, not their domicile. So as all you east posters are quick to point out, if PHX is so hurting and in need of downsizing, perhaps the company will just move 300 or so West pilots to PHL.

 

[ableoneable]

Unfortunately for your dreams of widebody flying, geography and staffing requirements negate any possible benefits the company may get by switching the widebody flying to the west list.

Geography is not an issue.

As to your latter point; prove it.

I am willing to bet that should you beat the odds and achieve LOA 84 payrates, widebody flying will in fact begin a westward tilt.

 

[ableoneable]

Double Post

 

[Metroyet]

If USAPA goes away, there is no entity to assume the CBA. Hence, your contract, and mine, are meaningless. We are employees at will. It's our equivalent of the "nuclear option." Are we willing to do it? Quite possibly, IMHO.

Oh, and the company is NOT enjoined by the court, no matter how much you wish it were. I believe Wake dismissed the company from the suit on the first day, and they have simply been bystanders. The wording of the injunction is specifically directed at USAPA, and USAPA's negotiations with the company.

I've said it before. If the company was enjoined by Wakes decision, the Nicolau would have been in effect already. It's not.

How many times does it need to be explained to you? The company is "enjoined" by the TA. We all know what the TA says about seniority integration. That process was completed and it complied with the 5 conditions that were outline in the TA. They have a list and they've said time and again they're going to use it...the nic. Wake didn't dismiss the company from having to comply with the TA!

It's really not that complicated.