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US Pilots Labor Discussion 12/14- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

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What part of the Transition Agreement do you not understand?

Hate

In my case most of it. It has so much idiotic BS in it, I simply do not understand.

Has a method for resolving seniority integration, via binding arbitration if necessary, yet has a loophole to disregard? Is that really the intent?

Has a drop dead date of when the seniority list can be used, 12 months after either side cancels contract negotiations, the east did by walking out of negotiations, yet somehow that does not cancel them, just postpones them til the east decides they are not canceled?

Has a list of minimum A/C by N number, and the company renumbered a sizable portion of the fleet, and add growth A/C, so who has rights to what?

Has specific treatment of the recall and hiring of furloughs, and where their seniority will fall and what they are entitled to, yet the company and the "union" decided to ignore that part.

So, I will admit it, I do not understand large portions of the TA. But, I do understand, as HPearly does, that it no longer matters what the TA says, or your other conracts say, or what future contracts say, cause you will not find anyone to make an agreement with again.

The real question is, what part of nobody trust you(pl), or cares what you(pl) think, do you not understand?
 
Funny you should ask. I recently read that even credit card companies are stopping the use of arbitration because it is viewed as unfair.

Not exactly true. Their supposedly neutral arbitrating firm was found to have business ties to the credit card industry and, therefore, was not neutral. A state attorney general's lawsuit put the National Arbitration Forum, which is a business entity, out of the consumer arbitration business.
 
Yo HP,

What part of the Transition Agreement do you not understand? Parker and Kirby understand that you will never see the Nicolau award. Freund tried to tell you and you wouldn't listen.

Hate


Yo hater,

Your side agreed to binding arbitration, so did the west, so did the company.

But, your side reneged, and all that court stuff, etc.

So, what does "binding" mean to you? That you can agree on something, then not honor your agreement?

Simple answer needed, don't bring any other topic into it. Did the east agree to binding arbitration? Yes or no?
 
Simple answer needed, don't bring any other topic into it. Did the east agree to binding arbitration? Yes or no?

I, donning swami hat and staring into crystal ball, see a "I didn't agree to anything" with a slight chance of "expected a fair result" answer in your future...

Jim
 
For all of you guys placing bets on the MDA suit in solving any of your problems. You might want to actually read the law suit and figure out what they are asking for. If there is anyone donating money to the cause in hopes of overturning Nicolau. Better do some research.
This is the remedy the MDA pilots have asked for:
That is it. Nowhere in there does it ask to overturn the Nicolau award. Nowhere does it ask for any remedy of seniority at all except for money from ALPA. Since the men of genius vote ALPA off the island they have no leverage over us or the Nicolau list. We will not even have to pay any of it even of they manage to win.
How is theMDA law suit going to be a win for the east pilots and change the Nicolau award?

This is where you reruse to recognize the legal issues. Sure, MDA only wants lots of ALPA money. But ALPA will not pay them a cent in non-precedent settlement. So they have to get a jury verdict to get money. If a jury awards them money its because a jury thought ALPA screwed them. Such award says ALPA, the CBA for both East and West, presented Nicolau with a bogus list. Otherwise, you couldn't get a jury win if ALPA's list was fair. Its pretty easy to understand. Since ALPA doesn't want to lose this one, they may have to take this to trial and verdict and hope. Getting the NIC trashed on the MEDA verdict of a bogus list is collateral damage. I'm not saying ALPA is going to lose, I'm just saying if ALPA loses, the NIC may go down with them. Or at least give legal status to quesitoning the legitimacy of the lists that ALPA allowed to be passed to Nioclau in the first place. What MDA is asking for is $$. What USAPA may get out of ALPA losing is bringing into play the validity of the lists. ALPA self-preservation comes first. They don't give a hoot about east or west right now. ALPA could settle out without admitting fault. That would hurt USAPA. But ALPA won't. There's too much money at stake for them and they are too far into this already to settle out. ALPA is not your friend on this. If this is too complicated for you to understand, sorry, I can't help you further.
 
Thank you making the west point about the C&R. You are so eager to close PHX where are the protections for the west pilots if PHX is shrunk or closed. GONE and it is back to straight DOH. Thanks no thanks.

And then you advance on the backs of the East F/Os ........see how easiliy your own argument gets flipped on ya!! Don't bring a slingshot to an intellectual gunfight!!

VNIIMN
If PHX closes and the west has to bid east bases by DOH. The same DOH list that staples 85% of the west under your furloughed pilots. Just how is that on the backs of east F/O's? Bang!

It think your slingshot broke.
 
So, what does "binding" mean to you? That you can agree on something, then not honor your agreement?

Simple answer needed, don't bring any other topic into it. Did the east agree to binding arbitration? Yes or no?


This arbitration is not binding! As Megasnoop stated earlier, Nic only sticks as long as their is a union. Period. Take a look at my name- there is youre answer.

The east agreed to a fair and balanced integration- the senile old man gave everything to the west. Please excuse us if you are so offended about us sticking up for our rights. Move along now!
 
I, donning swami hat and staring into crystal ball, see a "I didn't agree to anything" with a slight chance of "expected a fair result" answer in your future...

Jim

I won't say that I didn't agree to anything. Better to say I had no choice in the matter. We should have left ALPA when they changed merger policy rather than wait to see how it would play out in the next big merger.

Mea Culpa.
 
This is where you reruse to recognize the legal issues. Sure, MDA only wants lots of ALPA money. But ALPA will not pay them a cent in non-precedent settlement. So they have to get a jury verdict to get money. If a jury awards them money its because a jury thought ALPA screwed them. Such award says ALPA, the CBA for both East and West, presented Nicolau with a bogus list. Otherwise, you couldn't get a jury win if ALPA's list was fair. Its pretty easy to understand. Since ALPA doesn't want to lose this one, they may have to take this to trial and verdict and hope. Getting the NIC trashed on the MEDA verdict of a bogus list is collateral damage. I'm not saying ALPA is going to lose, I'm just saying if ALPA loses, the NIC may go down with them. Or at least give legal status to quesitoning the legitimacy of the lists that ALPA allowed to be passed to Nioclau in the first place. What MDA is asking for is $$. What USAPA may get out of ALPA losing is bringing into play the validity of the lists. ALPA self-preservation comes first. They don't give a hoot about east or west right now. ALPA could settle out without admitting fault. That would hurt USAPA. But ALPA won't. There's too much money at stake for them and they are too far into this already to settle out. ALPA is not your friend on this. If this is too complicated for you to understand, sorry, I can't help you further.


you're the one and only true straw man......keep on grasping.....
 
This arbitration is not binding! As Megasnoop stated earlier, Nic only sticks as long as their is a union. Period. Take a look at my name- there is youre answer.

The east agreed to a fair and balanced integration- the senile old man gave everything to the west. Please excuse us if you are so offended about us sticking up for our rights. Move along now!

Good lord! Please learn the difference between their, there and they're and while you're at it try your and you're.

On the second point you are also incorrect because the company was a party to the arbitration and they will still exist even if we have no union.

Further, as has been pointed out should all union representation disappear and the company decides to disregard the arbitration award they can institute any kind of list they wish. It probably will not be DOH.

Fourth, your continuing to call a well respected arbitrator senile based only on your own unrealistic expectations is unpersuasive.

Last, the arbitration did not give anything to the west. It simply allowed west pilots to hold the same seat and equipment the day after integration as they could the day before. Because you wanted your furloughees to become senior to west lineholding captains and east FOs to steal west Captain jobs and this landgrab was thwarted you scream that the west has a lottery ticket. Your definition of a lottery win is pretty twisted.
 
Good lord! Please learn the difference between their, there and they're and while you're at it try your and you're....


Fourth, your continuing to call a well respected arbitrator senile based only on your own unrealistic expectations is unpersuasive.

What color is YOUR glass house? Better check YOUR grammar before you proclaim to be the grammar police!
 
What color is YOUR glass house? Better check YOUR grammar before you proclaim to be the grammar police!


seham's response to judge graber and her hypothetical question to him about men and women and a union had me laughing so hard and peeing my pants all at the same time.

Don't think she knits during the ...................tp
 
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