US Pilots' Labor Discussion 10/27-11/?

[aquagreen73s]

I respect that statement, HPDriver on the other hand seems to thouroughly enjoy any bad news for fellow(east) employees.

Once again you easties lack context. HPDriver isn't exactly communicating that thought directly, unlike the dozens of easties on this board who a year ago spent post after post reminding the West of their ill fortunes. Then, nine hundred and some odd easties took it upon themselves to deny west pilots the furlough medical benefits.

Again, context makes one heck of a difference.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Once again you easties lack context. HPDriver isn't exactly communicating that thought directly, unlike the dozens of easties on this board who a year ago spent post after post reminding the West of their ill fortunes. Then, nine hundred and some odd easties took it upon themselves to deny west pilots the furlough medical benefits.

Again, context makes one heck of a difference.

Actually, the vote was to deny benefits to non member furloughed pilots. Big difference. You can't even get a hand out at a roach coach. So stop expecting something for nothing.

 

[ableoneable]

The latest rumors from westieland are as follows;

1. Consolidation to four bases: PHX, CLT, PHL & DCA.

2. 160 Pilot Furloughs. ( Ed Bular is working hard to ensure that the pain is shared with the west. Because junior west is more expensive than junior east and east furloughs trigger more training events than west furloughs, he may have some success.)

3. Some 330s may be moved to PHX. (This may or may not involve west crews flying them.)

 

[aquagreen73s]

Actually, the vote was to deny benefits to non member furloughed pilots. Big difference. You can't even get a hand out at a roach coach. So stop expecting something for nothing.

Something for nothing You mean like a DOH do over?

The near future for the East will be as follows: Nic stics (forever), assessments to pay West legal expenses, and then we roll into damages. Another merger will seal your fate.

It's over.

 

[Dogandsuds]

HI! This is my first post after lurking for 4 years. Disclosure, I’m a furloughed East pilot. I had to go overseas to keep flying without starving at a regional for $17K/yr and I’m only feeding myself. I eat a lot. So I’ve been following this TA10 very closely. I’ve talked to the furlough and scope committee guys too. Nothing’s in stone, except the company is back in compliance on minimum hours since February, I don’t think we’ll get any jobs back out of this win. I should get some money, but there’s no guarantee of that. Now it looks like even more furloughs. But even with another 160, I’ll come back in just over three years, in 2013, after the retirements start again, just later in 2013.

I never posted mainly because the way you guys tear each other apart on both sides. I didn’t see any reason to get ripped apart either. I’ve got more important things to worry about, like paying for hotdogs and beer. I’m near the bottom and what happens in the war the rest of you are fighting makes no difference to me. If I ever get recalled, it will be long before any single contract the way the company is going. Once retirements kick in 3 years from now, recall will initially be about 170 later on NIC. Then the gap closes fast with retirements. I figure it’s about 15-20 numbers difference for me my last 20-25 years if the place lasts that long. I do see a lot of things that aren’t true on both sides, so for the first time I’ll comment. I couldn’t get the reply function to work right. I haven’t figured out all the tricks to posting, so I just copied this post from the 24th by TheBadCat1313.

“You're right, though. They did reduce west block
hours way too much. Now they're going to have
to increase them and bring back west pilots as a
result of the grievance (which, btw was only filed
by USAPA as a defensive move in response to the
Addington litigation).â€

I don’t agree with him. I wish he was right, because I could come back with recalls. The company has been Ok on hours since February, so they don’t have to raise them. They’ll probably furlough more, looks like. I think I’m looking at a small cash settlement, but no recalls, east or west.

He said the filing was only a defensive move to the lawsuit, I think that’s not true. I don’t know what you can paste on this web board, but below is the USAPA Scope Committee’s September 25, 2008 update. If it’s removed, at least I’ll summarize. USAPA didn’t have the data to file a dispute on the West going below minimum hours until the first quarterly Scope meeting they had with the company after taking over. Once they got it on the 17th, they filed a dispute. Their update outlined their case back then. Those of us near furlough at the time kept on top of the entire 1 year process from claim to award. The company claimed they could average the time and they lost. Whye did I care about a West grievance? Because if they could get away with it out west, they could do it to us in the east.

One last thing, since I’ve been on furlough, USAPA has been good to me and kept me informed. The insurance payments helped a lot until I got a new job. Every phone call and email was answered right away. I got my current job because of a lead from the Furlough Committee. That was more than we ever got when my previous ALPA carrier went out of business. They gave us a one-year subscription to a pilot hiring news letter meant for low time CFIs. I'm not saying ALPA's bad. We were shut down, not just some furloughs, so there was a difference for sure.

Sincerely, Dog (and suds)


Edited by moderator violation of rule 3......please read board rules posted at top of forum before posting again. Otherwise welcome.

 

[cleardirect]

Dog and suds,

Just one comment. You are incorrect about any east pilots getting any cash over T/A 10. The east has always been in compliance. It was the west that was below min block hours. So it will be the west that gets any cash payouts.

You may be correct about no recalls. But at a minimum the west can not furlough anymore. If we were below block hours with the pilots we had and they have to maintain or add there is no more room to furlough. Besides the west has also had retirements along the way.

It is only the east that can be furloughed right now. That is because the 190’s are not covered by the T/A. that is 25 airplanes and about 250 east pilots that can be released. Plus the east still has a little room above min block hours. So if someone told you that T/A 10 was going to help the east they were incorrect. It is a west deal only.

Separate ops when it works against you does not look so good anymore. The west has been saying all along. We are together on this thing. We need to share in the pains and the gains. But USAPA thought differently. So the west has had our pain and no gain. It is time for the east to have yours.

 

[luvn737s]

.

You may be correct about no recalls. But at a minimum the west can not furlough anymore. If we were below block hours with the pilots we had and they have to maintain or add there is no more room to furlough.

I think the T/A specifies minimums for hours and airframes, but not pilots. The company could decide to cut reserves to almost nothing and roll the dice.

When the cuts were 3:1 in favor of the east, Bular didn't appear concerned with sharing any pain.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Once again you easties lack context. HPDriver isn't exactly communicating that thought directly, unlike the dozens of easties on this board who a year ago spent post after post reminding the West of their ill fortunes. Then, nine hundred and some odd easties took it upon themselves to deny west pilots the furlough medical benefits.

Again, context makes one heck of a difference.

Always the victim. How about the rest of the story? You can can justify just about anything.

 

[cubfan]

Something for nothing You mean like a DOH do over?

The near future for the East will be as follows: Nic stics (forever), assessments to pay West legal expenses, and then we roll into damages. Another merger will seal your fate.

It's over.

"Nic stics" most likely, "assessments to pay West legal expenses" could happen, but don't expect anyone to pay, damages, maybe, but once again, don't expect payment. You would have a better chance of a happy pilot group before anyone one would pay assessments. The union would file bk or there would be a new union long before any checks were cut by individuals to pay assessments.........can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

[cubfan]

160 furloughs

AS Tiger 1050 said, I hope not, but I read this on pilotloop also, where are you getting your info. Rumors or concrete, union reps, cp office, 160 seems like a large number for 10 a/c. If true, foolish time to announce with holidays just around corner. Hope no one accepts pota or over flys, fly your sked. :down:

 

[aquagreen73s]

"Nic stics" most likely, "assessments to pay West legal expenses" could happen, but don't expect anyone to pay, damages, maybe, but once again, don't expect payment.

Tell it to the judge, then, because Section 29 is a two way street.

 

[cubfan]

Tell it to the judge, then, because Section 29 is a two way street.

not sure, but assessments have to be voted on, not likely it would pass which would lead to the union having to pay 100% which would lead to bk or new union..........don't hold your breath

 

[luvn737s]

Nah, they'll just change the constitution. Remember the folks you're dealing with.

 

[aquagreen73s]

not sure, but assessments have to be voted on, not likely it would pass which would lead to the union having to pay 100% which would lead to bk or new union..........don't hold your breath

You wish the law operated that way, but it's pretty clear that damages and atty fee awards follow to any change in the CBA. You also need to do a little research before posting about unions and bankruptcy, as it's pretty hard for them to meet the insolvency test when they have guaranteed revenue sources via dues and section 29. Plus, there are assessments.

There's no way out.

 

[hp_fa]

I never posted mainly because the way you guys tear each other apart on both sides. I didn’t see any reason to get ripped apart either. I’ve got more important things to worry about, like paying for hotdogs and beer. I’m near the bottom and what happens in the war the rest of you are fighting makes no difference to me. If I ever get recalled, it will be long before any single contract the way the company is going. Once retirements kick in 3 years from now, recall will initially be about 170 later on NIC. Then the gap closes fast with retirements. I figure it’s about 15-20 numbers difference for me my last 20-25 years if the place lasts that long. I do see a lot of things that aren’t true on both sides, so for the first time I’ll comment. I couldn’t get the reply function to work right.

Dog, welcome to the board. I will be glad to answer any questions about how to copy snippets, etc. Just send me a PM (Private Mail) and ask your question(s).

Again, welcome.