oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
Keep dreaming.
Your bitterness is showing.
Your bitterness is showing.
US Pilot Labor Thread 10/5 to 10/12 KEEP ON TOPIC
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Status
E
EastUS
Guest
Indeed, as exemplified by the long-standard, vitriolic rantings such as = Prechill: "....imagination runs wild with you guys... like a thirsty man wandering in the desert chasing the elusive mirage on the horizon." ...the desert reference being especially amusing, and the mirage fully suits the Nic
It's all naught but endless variations on the well established and long cherished westie theme of "It's just entirely ALL about MEEE!..."and, in my tiny mind; the whole big bad world agrees with that, and knows that I'm truly "Special" cuzz I was once AWA!"....becasue I was among those that made the NASA selection cuts needed to get a job at AWA..well...just the fact that I was virtually in diapers when you pinned on wings doesn't matter..Waaah!!..I should be "Senior"!!!...and there's NO reason to have the slightest concern or ANY respect for you or your work/llife/etc at all!! My Mommy Nic liked me best!!!"...."and we hate you guys!!" etc/ad nauseum...bleach any/all aspects of the brain's normal and healthy functioning, and incessantly rinse and repeat as needed to maintain the puerile, narcicisstic fantasy..... It's a seemingly perfect, (if to an almost unimaginable level), classic example of arrested development in action..... truly pathetic and just plain disgusting on all possible levels.....Prechill: "...and this is why you guys can't figure out the world around you." Yes indeed I've exhausted all remaining reserves of patience for the west's infantile BS.I know that not all you folks out west are perpetually pre-pubescent whack-jobs, and I mean no offence to those that aren't. Here's a thought for all though; Instead of sitting around with your thumbs up your arses and just whining about everything in general...How about start to actually consider what might be done to try and prevent furloughs?...other than futilely awaiting some magic wand's wavings and somewhere-over-the rainbow "certain victory" in the Superior Courts of Fantasyland?..Just a thought.
wopr21
Senior
- Aug 13, 2004
- 260
- 26
Can't wait to hear what UAL will say when a 98 hire from the west thinks he/she is untitled to a 777 capt position. Im sure that will go over well.
Thats why UAL is trying to change ALPA merger policy back to DOH.
This whole NIC thing has been a disaster and will not work. The evidence is overwhelming.
wopr
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
...
That Pesky Paperwork
USAPA leadership has been extremely busy of late with the myriad of chores required not only to establish the union but also to see that it runs as required. Whether or not they are succeeding in this monumental task is still an open question based on concerns voiced by east and west pilots.
Top among member priorities is the establishment of an election cycle so the various domicile councils can elect their own representatives and then a true representational election for the top leadership of the union. Of concern to all is that the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) (all appointed positions as of now) has, after 6 months, not established councils at US Airways domiciles in Phoenix and Las Vegas. Thousands of west based pilots have no representation, no communication, and no voice in their new union. Numerous west pilots have volunteered for the appointive position necessary to set up the councils but all who have volunteered have been rejected by the BPR for nebulous reasons.
The BPR, in an ill fated attempt to shore up the accounts receivable column has filed Section 29 termination letters against some west pilots. The BPR also happily announced in their last update that more termination letters are on the way. The union has still not provided an accounting of germane expenses for those that have chosen objector status. Without that accounting neither the pilot nor the union knows the proper amount of agency shop fees. Almost all west pilots that have applications in have received no response or action on acceptance. Without a properly established council the majority of west pilots do not know how much they owe in dues or whether or not they even should pay dues. The USAPA C & BL clearly spells out the process but so far the board has not acted on the protocols choosing instead the attempt at termination until the union can get their own accounting process up to speed.
The BPR negotiating committee has advanced a DOA DOH seniority list that was assembled with no input from either east or west pilots and one that the company has no intention of looking at according to company sources. The negotiating committee has also given up myriad west contractual protections that have been hard won over the years without asking for anything in return. The negotiating committee doesn't understand much of the west contract and does not care to ask for or listen to the rationale behind many of the protections west pilots currently enjoy and east pilots would dearly love to have. The level of carnage in the current negotiations not only has east and west pilots concerned but also has management involved in negotiations concerned as well. Overheard at the table was the comment that if this what the pilots really want they'll have one of the best commuter contracts ever. Management is concerned because they know the pilots will never accept all the giveaways from both contracts as they exist today.
Because of all the monumental issues facing the BPR we have to believe they don't have enough time, resources and oversight to manage the various tasks at hand. The board is so entrenched in a caustic approach with their membership that they are either afraid or refuse to ask for expert help which is readily available. Which brings us to our point of this post. So much is flying by an appointed and discomfited leadership that even the basics are escaping their attention.
Not only is the union facing a cash crunch which may very well imperil the future of the organization they may not be complying with many procedures and laws which could bring the operations of the union to a grinding stop. According to internal USAPA sources, the union has allegedly failed to provide any paperwork required to permit them to operate as a non profit entity. ALPA, for example, employs an accounting firm to ensure that all provisions of the law are complied with yet the USAPA Secretary/Treasurer has seemingly overlooked this very important requirement. The IRS is reportedly conducting or soon will conduct an audit of USAPA. The union may be faced with federal penalties for failure to file, comply with and adhere to the laws which allow the union to operate.
The attrition of dollars from the membership is, at this rate, going to far exceed the value of attrition of east pilots which the board is so blindingly trying to protect. The "looking behind you while screaming full speed ahead" approach the board is taking is going to result in a spectacular crash. Managing a new union, joining two pilot groups, negotiating a contract, filing frivolous lawsuits, and making promises that are impossible to keep are coming together to strike what will surely be a fatal blow to USAPA. Both east and west see the coming disaster and both know that it doesn't have to happen.
That Pesky Paperwork
USAPA leadership has been extremely busy of late with the myriad of chores required not only to establish the union but also to see that it runs as required. Whether or not they are succeeding in this monumental task is still an open question based on concerns voiced by east and west pilots.
Top among member priorities is the establishment of an election cycle so the various domicile councils can elect their own representatives and then a true representational election for the top leadership of the union. Of concern to all is that the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) (all appointed positions as of now) has, after 6 months, not established councils at US Airways domiciles in Phoenix and Las Vegas. Thousands of west based pilots have no representation, no communication, and no voice in their new union. Numerous west pilots have volunteered for the appointive position necessary to set up the councils but all who have volunteered have been rejected by the BPR for nebulous reasons.
The BPR, in an ill fated attempt to shore up the accounts receivable column has filed Section 29 termination letters against some west pilots. The BPR also happily announced in their last update that more termination letters are on the way. The union has still not provided an accounting of germane expenses for those that have chosen objector status. Without that accounting neither the pilot nor the union knows the proper amount of agency shop fees. Almost all west pilots that have applications in have received no response or action on acceptance. Without a properly established council the majority of west pilots do not know how much they owe in dues or whether or not they even should pay dues. The USAPA C & BL clearly spells out the process but so far the board has not acted on the protocols choosing instead the attempt at termination until the union can get their own accounting process up to speed.
The BPR negotiating committee has advanced a DOA DOH seniority list that was assembled with no input from either east or west pilots and one that the company has no intention of looking at according to company sources. The negotiating committee has also given up myriad west contractual protections that have been hard won over the years without asking for anything in return. The negotiating committee doesn't understand much of the west contract and does not care to ask for or listen to the rationale behind many of the protections west pilots currently enjoy and east pilots would dearly love to have. The level of carnage in the current negotiations not only has east and west pilots concerned but also has management involved in negotiations concerned as well. Overheard at the table was the comment that if this what the pilots really want they'll have one of the best commuter contracts ever. Management is concerned because they know the pilots will never accept all the giveaways from both contracts as they exist today.
Because of all the monumental issues facing the BPR we have to believe they don't have enough time, resources and oversight to manage the various tasks at hand. The board is so entrenched in a caustic approach with their membership that they are either afraid or refuse to ask for expert help which is readily available. Which brings us to our point of this post. So much is flying by an appointed and discomfited leadership that even the basics are escaping their attention.
Not only is the union facing a cash crunch which may very well imperil the future of the organization they may not be complying with many procedures and laws which could bring the operations of the union to a grinding stop. According to internal USAPA sources, the union has allegedly failed to provide any paperwork required to permit them to operate as a non profit entity. ALPA, for example, employs an accounting firm to ensure that all provisions of the law are complied with yet the USAPA Secretary/Treasurer has seemingly overlooked this very important requirement. The IRS is reportedly conducting or soon will conduct an audit of USAPA. The union may be faced with federal penalties for failure to file, comply with and adhere to the laws which allow the union to operate.
The attrition of dollars from the membership is, at this rate, going to far exceed the value of attrition of east pilots which the board is so blindingly trying to protect. The "looking behind you while screaming full speed ahead" approach the board is taking is going to result in a spectacular crash. Managing a new union, joining two pilot groups, negotiating a contract, filing frivolous lawsuits, and making promises that are impossible to keep are coming together to strike what will surely be a fatal blow to USAPA. Both east and west see the coming disaster and both know that it doesn't have to happen.
how low
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
...
A Monumental Week
The self appointed USAPA leadership seems to have finally realized they have a huge leverage problem. We got news for them, the problem isn’t going away!
In their latest diatribe emailed this evening, they started with a statement in which we wholeheartedly agree.
“This week was no less than monumental for the Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) and the US Airways Pilots.â€
Of course it was monumental. Let’s review:
They passed a DOH seniority list that wasn’t actually DOH. Ask the Shuttle pilots if it reflects their true DOH. It also included MDA pilots hired off the street that never flew mainline equipment. The good news is that we hear management tossed the list where it belongs; in the trash.
Attached were conditions and restrictions that pilfered all reasonable pre-merger career expectations from the West pilots. Included was the complete disregard of the Eischen arbitration award specifying the allocation of E190 seats.
Completely ignored a binding arbitration agreed to in writing by both the East and West pilots. Once the smoke clears from this monumental week, the Nicolau Award will be the combined seniority list contained in Section 22.
Completed the passing of all contract sections that give significant concessions in both work rule and fringe benefits in exchange for rate line increases. If pilots were upset about the 830 rest, wait until USAPA’s scheduling proposal is published.
And finally, but most importantly, this will be remembered as the week that permanently divided the East and West pilot groups rendering hopeless the chances of achieving anything close to an industry standard contract.
So it was with little surprise to us that they ended their update begging you for support and attempting to manage your expectations. You see, they have a major problem and they know it. First, with Section 6 openers over a year away, they have no leverage. Self help is not an option and will not be available for years to come. Second, the entire West pilot group and many East pilots do not support the effort. It’s the most divided pilot group in the industry and management knows it. So, in their inexperience and frustration they are going to inundate the pilots with emails begging for unity and support. They actually think that they can achieve a unified pilot group just by asking. Their utter naïveté leaves us speechless.
“The Committee wants to stress the importance of your expectations during these negotiations. If you have not yet read the NAC Chair Letter regarding expectations, we request that you take the time and do it now. There is nothing more important to our cause than your continued support. Please stay informed and we remind you to look at what Management does, not what they say.â€
You betcha, this was a monumental week. The good news is that TheEye is here to watch not only everything USAPA says, but everything they do
A Monumental Week
The self appointed USAPA leadership seems to have finally realized they have a huge leverage problem. We got news for them, the problem isn’t going away!
In their latest diatribe emailed this evening, they started with a statement in which we wholeheartedly agree.
“This week was no less than monumental for the Negotiating Advisory Committee (NAC) and the US Airways Pilots.â€
Of course it was monumental. Let’s review:
They passed a DOH seniority list that wasn’t actually DOH. Ask the Shuttle pilots if it reflects their true DOH. It also included MDA pilots hired off the street that never flew mainline equipment. The good news is that we hear management tossed the list where it belongs; in the trash.
Attached were conditions and restrictions that pilfered all reasonable pre-merger career expectations from the West pilots. Included was the complete disregard of the Eischen arbitration award specifying the allocation of E190 seats.
Completely ignored a binding arbitration agreed to in writing by both the East and West pilots. Once the smoke clears from this monumental week, the Nicolau Award will be the combined seniority list contained in Section 22.
Completed the passing of all contract sections that give significant concessions in both work rule and fringe benefits in exchange for rate line increases. If pilots were upset about the 830 rest, wait until USAPA’s scheduling proposal is published.
And finally, but most importantly, this will be remembered as the week that permanently divided the East and West pilot groups rendering hopeless the chances of achieving anything close to an industry standard contract.
So it was with little surprise to us that they ended their update begging you for support and attempting to manage your expectations. You see, they have a major problem and they know it. First, with Section 6 openers over a year away, they have no leverage. Self help is not an option and will not be available for years to come. Second, the entire West pilot group and many East pilots do not support the effort. It’s the most divided pilot group in the industry and management knows it. So, in their inexperience and frustration they are going to inundate the pilots with emails begging for unity and support. They actually think that they can achieve a unified pilot group just by asking. Their utter naïveté leaves us speechless.
“The Committee wants to stress the importance of your expectations during these negotiations. If you have not yet read the NAC Chair Letter regarding expectations, we request that you take the time and do it now. There is nothing more important to our cause than your continued support. Please stay informed and we remind you to look at what Management does, not what they say.â€
You betcha, this was a monumental week. The good news is that TheEye is here to watch not only everything USAPA says, but everything they do
Tiger 1050
Veteran
- Aug 4, 2007
- 882
- 12
...I have to say I really loved this one! 
Expectations....
Yesterday, USAPA Negotiating Advisory Committee Chairman Paul DiOrio wrote an open letter on 'expectations.' We won't bore you with his painfully wrong assessment of US Airways financial situation, rather we'll reprint his closing statement about leverage.
"The Negotiating Advisory Committee alone cannot get you a fair contract. The entire Union cannot get you a fair contract. It is our Pilots who can get a fair contract. Each and every one of our Pilots, coming together and collectively striving for one singular goal, is exactly what it will take to achieve a fair contract and the best way to start is to expect one!"
Let's see Mr. DiOrio; You've successfully alienated at least 1700 of your pilots with lawsuits, threats, and intimindation, yet you have the gall to lecture us on unity and leverage?
Expectations....
Yesterday, USAPA Negotiating Advisory Committee Chairman Paul DiOrio wrote an open letter on 'expectations.' We won't bore you with his painfully wrong assessment of US Airways financial situation, rather we'll reprint his closing statement about leverage.
"The Negotiating Advisory Committee alone cannot get you a fair contract. The entire Union cannot get you a fair contract. It is our Pilots who can get a fair contract. Each and every one of our Pilots, coming together and collectively striving for one singular goal, is exactly what it will take to achieve a fair contract and the best way to start is to expect one!"
Let's see Mr. DiOrio; You've successfully alienated at least 1700 of your pilots with lawsuits, threats, and intimindation, yet you have the gall to lecture us on unity and leverage?
E
EastUS
Guest
"according to company sources." Such as what/who/where/when imaginary "company sources"? You folks out there certainly drink deeply of the Koolaide and wholesale lies with easy grace it seems. The "reverand" Jim Jones would have found great comfort in your group philosophy methinks. As for all the rest? = More of the usual variations on the long ago established theme songs out there. From the list of famous west quotes throughout the proceedings:
"You won't even get 200 cards!"...."You will wake up and find that Alpa is still your bargaining agent"...."Final and Binding!..."It's OVER..get used to it!"..."Booyooshaka!".."Ho Ho Ho! St Nic is coming to town!"...How many doses of such utter BS does one truly need to perceive a pattern here as to exactly how much faith should be placed in any/all westie propoganda postings? There's a virtual avalanche readilly available where those came from. None of it's survived long when, forced by the passage of time, to squirm about and wither away in the light of day.
Call us all the very first moment that the brain trust within your self appointed, versus actually elected, supposed, umm, err..."leadership" out there ever gets anything at all right....
Sir Lurk-A-Lot
Member
- Aug 22, 2008
- 29
- 0
Is this a repost?
E
EastUS
Guest
The theme's remained entirely unchanged out there, as has the proven "validity" of any/all west predictions to date. What's your point...if any?
No matter = No need to tire yourself excessively with any troublesome issues of reading an entire paragraph. Just answer the simple question = "according to company sources." Such as what/who/where/when imaginary "company sources"?"
This last is a repost
"Call us all the very first moment that the brain trust within your self appointed, versus actually elected, supposed, umm, err..."leadership" out there ever gets anything at all right.... " In the meanwhiile..while awaiting snow skiing's opening season in hell...be careful of what's put into the Koolaide out there...
Sir Lurk-A-Lot
Member
- Aug 22, 2008
- 29
- 0
I don't know. I don't work for your company.
E
EastUS
Guest
Agreed. You don't.
A minor point of curiosity for the west folks; Given that the following was recently told to the faithfull out there by the might "Army" itself..What's the current willingness- to-just-believe-anything index ratings out there?:
"Under the RLA, federal courts are mostly divested of jurisdiction over controversies involving labor disputes until an administrative process is complete."
Naturally..that small bit of factual information was also encased within the standard whining, entitlement saturated, "It's ALL about MEEE!"..."Righteous Position!" BS. From the Department of Narcicissm and Childish Propoganda itself = ".... their obligations to the West (and the very principles of integrity and honor),....
Sir Lurk-A-Lot
Member
- Aug 22, 2008
- 29
- 0
Ah much better EastUS. A post where you make your point short and succinct. I think you are turning over a new leaf.
Freighterguynow
Veteran
- Jan 5, 2004
- 1,276
- 1,207
Yea sure, just what we needed, another website about the seniority list.
E
EastUS
Guest
Would you be found wriggling under such a leaf or pile thereof?...or must one lift a stone to hope for such a wondrous discovery?
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