US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 12/16-22

[electricjet98]

YES.. I kept my position "today"...agreed , but again I ask what is the ratio in the "Future". Thats where the NIC had the windfall.

YOU GET IT ALL WITH DOH AS TIME PASSES.

Do I need a longer 2x4!!!

wopr

And as you also said earlier:

"As I said before you cant look into the future and project where you will be"

We're really not interested in any eastie IOU's!

 

[nic4us]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a simple question for the east pilots. No bull. I have given the cabin crew a gift on Christmas since I became captain. Do you folks do the same. Do you think it is appropriate. Honest, no hidden seniority agenda bait in the question.

Nic4us

 

[wopr21]

And as you also said earlier:

"As I said before you cant look into the future and project where you will be"

We're really not interested in any eastie IOU's!

Just what I thought, afraid to admit it...

We haven't given you an IOU. We owe you nothing because you have everything if the NIC is the word.

"As I said before you cant look into the future and project where you will be"
Thats why DOH is the only way with C&R's. It is all we have as a group.

Now.. where did I put my glass of tea

Cheers

wopr

 

[wopr21]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a simple question for the east pilots. No bull. I have given the cabin crew a gift on Christmas since I became captain. Do you folks do the same. Do you think it is appropriate. Honest, no hidden seniority agenda bait in the question.

Nic4us

Well we do have some humanity here.

The trips I have on the east, it is done. Usually on the trip closest to Christmas. Just something small like maybe pay for dinner or chocolate, or maybe donuts...yeh........donuts. You can decide.

I think thats nice of you to think of that.

Congrats on your upgrade

wopr

 

[BoeingBoy]

There are no career expectations . Just look at history.

wopr

 

[exB717Flyer]

I have also earned, though DOH, my position and way of life.

In 2005 before the merger a 1986 DOH earned a USAirways pilot the bottom FO position. Was he junior or senior then? The answer to that question is the reason why DOH isn't an appropriate method for integrating pilot groups unless the demographics are identical. Your USAirways DOH is meaningless to the AWA seniority list and vice versa. If you don't understand why just re-read the Nicolau and Bloch Awards.

 

[nic4us]

Well we do have some humanity here.

The trips I have on the east, it is done. Usually on the trip closest to Christmas. Just something small like maybe pay for dinner or chocolate, or maybe donuts...yeh........donuts. You can decide.

I think thats nice of you to think of that.

Congrats on your upgrade

wopr

Wopr,

I have not been congratulated on my upgrade for about a decade, I am kind of at a loss of what to make of that, but will simply say thanks.

The gifts I have given have been simple, like you mention, box of chocolate or a gift card for Blockbuster,Starbucks, etc. Does Dunkin Donuts sell gift cards and more importantly do they accept them at the airport?

Nic4us

 

[nostradamus]

Us Airways announced in their latest meeting in Charlotte, that they are ok with the Captains authority when the decision of who sits on the jump seat is made, if said Captain wants to use such for political reasons. The company is totally against the Captains authority when it pertains to how much fuel is put on an airplane.

The company considerd the existing pilot contracts as neutral as far as total costs, with the former alpa union, but are now throwing out the bone of pay to the east. The west pilots worked 20 plus years undercutting other pilots, they now thumb their nose at those that want more.

I hope each pilot enjoys the time spent with their family over the holidays, priorities are the decision of each individual pilot, the company has no say in this matter.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Us Airways announced in their latest meeting in Charlotte, that they are ok with the Captains authority when the decision of who sits on the jump seat is made, if said Captain wants to use such for political reasons. The company is totally against the Captains authority when it pertains to how much fuel is put on an airplane.

The company considerd the existing pilot contracts as neutral as far as total costs, with the former alpa union, but are now throwing out the bone of pay to the east. The west pilots worked 20 plus years undercutting other pilots, they now thumb their nose at those that want more.

I hope each pilot enjoys the time spent with their family over the holidays, priorities are the decision of each individual pilot, the company has no say in this matter.

Nos,
It's pretty clear that the company will be reluctant to take sides for obvious reasons. As far as undercutting other pilots, well, what can I say? Our contracts were without doubt subpar. However I can't seem to recall a time any AAA pilot came out to uphold the profession and offer advice and unity knowing we were a small fractured pilot group. Heck I can't seem to recall any pilot from any other airline really pulling for AWA. It is and IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN a "I got mine, you go get your own" mentality in this job. You would be wise to consider who the example was. Let's just say that I am not the first professional pilot...

Excusing your dig at my fellow pilots (typical actually. the east never takes responsibility for anything that didn't go their way), I too wish you a wonderful holiday and much time with the ones you love...

 

[Freighterguynow]

An 18% raise should be equal to two to three upgrades for the east.

With separate Ops an F/O upgrade to Captain will be a 50% raise and we'll have 100% of the East Captain vacancies ....

 

[Freighterguynow]

From where I sit, very much on the sidelines with no inside information from any party,

Got a question for you HP,

Knowing a bit about previous awards the selected Arbitrator for the TA/ furloughs has handed down I ask you this:

Say the Arbitrator rules in the companies favor ( my bet ) that the separate ops furloughs were fully in compliance with the TA. That would seem to impact a DFR suit in front of Federal Judge. If the judge were to issue a ruling at odds with the arbitration then who trumps whom?

Thanks

 

[cleardirect]

With separate Ops an F/O upgrade to Captain will be a 50% raise and we'll have 100% of the East Captain vacancies ....

In this short statement many things are said. First one of the very reasons that we are in court for DFR. The east knew that they could continue to steal any benefits of this merger by stalling. The judge sees this. He may find a way to balance that inequity that has happened over the last year.

Next not sure what kind of calculator was used but a captain makes 124.88 FO 85.29.

That figures to 31.8% not 50.0%

 

[cubfan]

In 2005 before the merger a 1986 DOH earned a USAirways pilot the bottom FO position. Was he junior or senior then? The answer to that question is the reason why DOH isn't an appropriate method for integrating pilot groups unless the demographics are identical. Your USAirways DOH is meaningless to the AWA seniority list and vice versa. If you don't understand why just re-read the Nicolau and Bloch Awards.

My take, after reading most post on what is fair, I think all carry some merit. I think where Nic award might have missed the boat is when using relative position he should have used true percentages. Now my take on this is not centered at any certain group, so here I go. Lets say he looked at all pilots with equal merit, not some more than others, all have an equal interest and value. You start with the top 10% of both list and merge them, one group would have more pilots than the other due to overall size, so what you do is decide how much larger and go from there. For example, if one group is twice as large you slot 2 to 1. 2 east for example 1 west. When done you move to the next 10% so on and so forth. So when you get to the end, I think what you would find, closer to the bottom guys would be mergered with about the same los. After that, now remember no age 65 yet, you could fence exsisting widebodies and bases for say 5 years. I think if that would have happened, you would still have some upset, but maybe not as much as you have now.

 

[cleardirect]

My take, after reading most post on what is fair, I think all carry some merit. I think where Nic award might have missed the boat is when using relative position he should have used true percentages. Now my take on this is not centered at any certain group, so here I go. Lets say he looked at all pilots with equal merit, not some more than others, all have an equal interest and value. You start with the top 10% of both list and merge them, one group would have more pilots than the other due to overall size, so what you do is decide how much larger and go from there. For example, if one group is twice as large you slot 2 to 1. 2 east for example 1 west. When done you move to the next 10% so on and so forth. So when you get to the end, I think what you would find, closer to the bottom guys would be mergered with about the same los. After that, now remember no age 65 yet, you could fence exsisting widebodies and bases for say 5 years. I think if that would have happened, you would still have some upset, but maybe not as much as you have now.

Sure! That is a way this seniority integration could have been done. There are a thousand variations on how the list could have been constructed. Nicolau said that each merger turns on its own facts. So if there is another merger sometime. We can again look at all of the different methods of integration.

Hopefully if there is another merger everyone will be willing to make those suggestions at the appropriate time. During negotiations and mediation. Not after the fact.

However this merged list is completed. We both presented our case and the mutually agreed neutral made his decision. Right or wrong fair not fair. It is in the eye of the beholder. But wishing or suggesting that it was done different is a wasted exercise. The list is done. We now have to figure out a way to move forward with the list as it was built.

 

[jetjok1]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have a simple question for the east pilots. No bull. I have given the cabin crew a gift on Christmas since I became captain. Do you folks do the same. Do you think it is appropriate. Honest, no hidden seniority agenda bait in the question.

Nic4us

Nic4us,

Since we have our crews with us the entire trip, I have taken the crew out to dinner (on me) several times a year. I will bring mostly food items like donuts in the AM, Pizza in the PM, things like that. Since I have a vineyard I bring wine to the crews occasionally. To answer your question Nic, I think it's a good thing. They work their butts off and don't make a whole lot of money. Congrats on the upgrade, good move on your part (the gifts) and Happy Holidays!!!