I can't believe it either. I for one do not want to have to fight merger battles for the rest of my career. If they don't have their house in order seven years after their last (relatively small) merger, it would take a generation to complete a merger with AA. No thanks, Doug!!
US Airways Makes Case for Merger With American
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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I can't believe it either. I for one do not want to have to fight merger battles for the rest of my career. If they don't have their house in order seven years after their last (relatively small) merger, it would take a generation to complete a merger with AA. No thanks, Doug!!
BoeingBoy
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For labor peace with the AA unions, maybe. But the AA unions only have 3 of the 9 votes on the UCC so it takes more than just union acceptance for a POR to get the UCC's approval for a vote by all the unsecured creditors. It seems that many seem to believe that if Parker can get 5 of the 9 members of the UCC to accept the plan, the battle is won. Not true - it takes 5 of the 9 to approve having all the unsecured creditors vote on the POR. And that vote is won or lost by each unsecured creditor casting votes equal to their percentage of the total unsecured debt.
Jim
EastCheats
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If this thing goes through, I'm glad our reps are laying the foundation by meeting with APA.
EastCheats
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That is the way I understood it, the meeting with APA was with the attorneys who represent us.
Phoenix
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Investors have accepted (even embraced) the business model that USAir passengers (and all legacy carriers do it) are flown by multiple seniority lists at multiple subgroup carriers, yet mainline pilots have this selfimportance notion that management is somehow missing out on merging their lists. I suppose everyone has to have a dream.
BoeingBoy
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What investors have accepted, or even embraced, is the idea that it's cheaper to farm out the flying and only scope prevents the creation of true virtual airlines that have no planes and few employees. But investors also must gauge whether the promised synergies of a proposed merger will fully materialize if the mainline components of two carriers can't be fully integrated since scope limits the flying that can be farmed out. Unless you're advocating the elimination of scope to help make the merger possible...
Jim
Jim
Move2CLT
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Wow, now that's wishful thinking.Investors have accepted (even embraced) the business model that USAir passengers (and all legacy carriers do it) are flown by multiple seniority lists at multiple subgroup carriers, yet mainline pilots have this selfimportance notion that management is somehow missing out on merging their lists. I suppose everyone has to have a dream.
Our lists are going to be merged PHX and that's a fact. There's still about 10% in synergies the company can obtain with a merged list which is currently being offset by the save LOA93 provides.
Once a new contract comes out, those cost savings are gone and it's more efficient and cost effective to have pilots working off on list.
So when we merge with AA, it'll be one list.
The Nic is coming PHX and all you crossed fingers won't change that.
SparrowHawk
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Questions by an interested party! ME!
1. Somebody is the odd man out when it comes to integrating a seniority list. My "gut" tells me it's the USAPA that could be very easily left holding a rather smelly bag of manure at the end of all of this? Am I right or wrong and why?
2. Does it really matter if the pilots of US are unified if APA essentially holds all of the cards via majority rule?
3. Doesn't the Nic award have some sort of integration calculation that would allow a Seniority list of ANY length be integrated with another of any length?
1. Somebody is the odd man out when it comes to integrating a seniority list. My "gut" tells me it's the USAPA that could be very easily left holding a rather smelly bag of manure at the end of all of this? Am I right or wrong and why?
2. Does it really matter if the pilots of US are unified if APA essentially holds all of the cards via majority rule?
3. Doesn't the Nic award have some sort of integration calculation that would allow a Seniority list of ANY length be integrated with another of any length?
You are right, usapa or more correctly the east pilots are screwed, the apa will easily stomp the idiots. Remember what the east says? Majority decides seniority. The east feels that amr's furloughed pilots should be placed in front of usairs own new hires who have jobs right now.
Not one bit. Unity only matters on the west, as long as the west is unified behind our legal team we hold a much bigger monkey wrench than the east.
nope, every merger turns on it's own facts, if this merger happens a whole new method will be devised.
SparrowHawk
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OK, so we agree here!
My Opinion only is that NO ONE holds a big enough monkey wrench. I've changed my view a bit and if the list integration gets ugly NO ONE will have what they want.
Well this kind of kicks my thought process in the ass. I was thinking the best way for the SLI to go smoothly was for the NIC methodology to be used in this manner.
USAPA accepts the NIC list on the condition that APA accepts the methodology. That was the ONLY way I saw that ALL US Airways pilots would be at least somewhat protected. In my mind I view the AA Pilots to be far more senior and thus USAPA has more to lose. At least with NIC they would know the methodology and not end up buried in the middle of a stagnant labor group.
signals
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No, it has been said over and over again, but Nero continues to fiddle!
signals
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Meet Nero and his fiddle
signals
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