Us Airways Is Not Only One Facing Outsourcing

[to much time to quit]

By the way, would it be better to cut a deal with management that provides a no furlough clause due to outsourced work or to lose the appeal and have no protections?

Or for the good of the company, why don't you give up your pension like we did, which I endorsed at the end, and keep the A320 work in-house? Why not be a leader instead of bitching all the time about how the industry has changed?

Regards,

Chip

Chip YOU just don't get!! We already have a deal in our contract. So you suggest we spit on our laid off coworkers and cut a deal to save ourselves at this piece of crap company. I'm sure Cav at goodyear for $12 bucks an hour will be more than a greyhound bus driver wage that you'll receive. The company didn't need our little pension to stay afloat, but the more you type the happier I get that they destroyed yours. The work is ours period!! Its not the maintenance dept. costs running this company into the ground. So open your eyes and realize this team we have running this place is a bunch of MORONS!

 

[737nCH11]

Chip,

This issue is simple when you break it down. The company got what they wanted from the IAM when you guys were in CH11. They don't get a second bite of the apple. Like UAL, you folks have given until it hurts. With cost cuts in place there comes a time when management must perform. These guys get paid huge sums of money to innovate and motivate, and so far Siegle isn't doing much of either. You are telling these IAM folks to think outside the box, but that is upper managements job not theirs.

With your concessionary agreements U management was handed the keys to the kingdom. They could have (and still could) turned the company around rather quickly, but it takes everyone pulling on the same end of the rope. Rather than shutting maintenance facilities in the middle of the night and trying to sneak 320s to Alabama, they should be working with the IAM to see how to increase revenue by bringing in outside work from other carriers. UAL has been doing this with their United Services devision. Yes they farmed maintenance out, but they are also bringing extra work in. That is not much comfort for out mechanics who have been furloughed, but it is a start. Think of what could be accomplished if Siegle and the redneck mouthpiece from Alabama would stop threatening and start leading.

I'll bet you guys are willing to go to great lengths to squash LUV in PHL. It can be done, but it has to start from the top. Dave needs to focus his negative energy on Herb instead of U employees. He needs to pump you guys up, and tell you that this fight is definitely winnable. Hell, that's another reason he gets paid, to be a corporate cheerleader.

I could go on, but I'll just get myself worked up. You guys are a classy operation, and I sure as hell wouldn't let some Lorenzo wannabe ruin it.

Take care

737

 

[USA320Pilot]

To much time to quit,

There is risk in the appeal process and the anti-company judicial sentiment by a Pittsburgh judge will not exist in Philadelphia. Furthermore, could a Philadelphia judge have sympathy for the company now that Southwest is moving into the "City of Brotherly Love"?

There is risk here and if you lose the appeal, you could get your clocks cleaned.

In addition, could Ed Rendell and his wife step in to over turn the decision as part of the PIT hub negotiations? I know what I am suggesting is illegal, but strange things happen to the best attorney's once in court.

Something to think about...

Regards,

Chip

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Chip,

If you can take a moment away from asking everyone to give up our jobs along with our furloughed friends? I have come across some interesting information that others whoms noses aren't imbedded into CCY's no no place might find interesting.

Aviation Maintenance Technician magazine recently conducted a survey in regards to outsourcing and it so-called cost saving benefits. AMT magazine is not about airline mechanics...it's about AMT's in all walks of the industry...so it's not biased !!

The findings were this....Airlines will only hope to see a 2% savings Vs. keeping the work in house. Can you with a clear mind continue to rubber stamp managments actions over a lousy 2 % ??? IF so ? You are more morally bankrupt than I care to imagine.

These savings can be realized only by a company that actually divides the needs between Line Maintenance and Heavy Maintenance...and supports them equally

U has never supported it's operations in an ideal way...and this is why we have robbed heavy maintenace Acft almost 4050 times since Jan 01 2003....how can we do this and keep a line Acft going when the part and plane is in Bum F-ing Egypt that needs to be robbed from??? U will not simply start buying spares because a nickle freed up over multiple job losses.

In this scenario I see the costs escalating instead of decreasing...but you are to ignorant of the facts to appreciate it as so...or it's the easy way out to ask others to sacrifice themselves for you and your career aspirations.

We are all on to you...and your comparisons to EAL AMT's and their outcome is almost a joke. I know many Ex-EAL IAMers here in CLT and PIT Heavy....and I know a bunch whom are victims of both EAL and U combined ...and both are directly impacted by greed or related to ill prepared and self-serving managments ability to rise to the changes...or even prepare for the rainy days in life.

Spare us Chip....your words are nothing more than an un-heard echo from near idiots with well lined pockets. We are against you...and anyone that thinks like you.

We are not intersted in eating our young...and you have written them all off yet well.again in a most round about way.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AOG:

Emotion kills, logic prevails. Your union will once again be in court where anything can happen.

It's your ball game and your risk.

My idea was to protect mechanic jobs with a no furlough clause, but if you want to take the risk that could result in your head being chopped off, then "go for it".

It's your mortage, medical insurance, pension, and income -- not mine.

I wrote about a reasonable solution that deserved reasonable debate, but I'm tired of writing about it. It's your party and your risk where all overhaul mechanics could lose thier job if the company wins the appeal in a court where a Rendell presides.

Then you would be like Southwest mechanics, with no overhaul.

Considering Dave Siegel is vindictive (just ask the Allegheny and Piedmont pilots) it would not surprise me if the company wins the appeal you get your clocks cleaned.

Therefore, "spare me AOG."

Regards,

Chip

 

[AP Tech]

Chip,
Much of U's current problem's and the lack of the Almighty Savior the "RJ" goes back to the days of W&G and their constant battle with ALPA over the integration of the RJ into the fleet. Oh......I forgot , you had a contract that did not allow them and ALPA was concerned about losing jobs. Ditto with the outsourcing of the Airbus's we do the work its in our contract!!!! 10 of the A/C will drop dead by January, U has said they will park them rather than have us fix them. I assume they will still be paying the lease. Now that is a great business plan. I doubt very much it will make it into the courts until early next spring.
As far as a no layoff clause in our contract.....Are you that naive that you actually believe this managment?? Case in point, numerous managment persons made the statement that there had been no decision on the Airbus farmout up to one week before the official anouncement, yet the contract between Mobile and U was dated 9/1/03!!!!!Heavy mtc on an A/C is not like your car, you don't call your dealer two days before and schedule an appointment, planning is involved. This had been in the works for months, behind our backs.
I did notice when reading my latest copy of ATW that U is proudly last in the category of on-time performance and FIRST in the complaint department.(June&July). "Dave & Co" is doing a great job of employee morale or maybe it was just two months of bad weather. :down:

 

[737nCH11]

Chip,

UAL ALPA had a no furlough clause, and look what it got us.

 

[High Iron]

"Emotion kills, logic prevails. Your union will once again be in court where anything can happen."

"It's your ball game and your risk."

More than a bit melodramatic yourself I'd say. No, it's the company picking the fight and risk. Standing up to the company, and all the brinksmanship that goes with it is a risk, to be sure....but more firmly grounded; ethically,morally, and legally. Memesis.

"My idea was to protect mechanic jobs with a no furlough clause, but if you want to take the risk that could result in your head being chopped off, then "go for it"."

For the 1457th time: "No layoff clause"? Something like a contract? Like the one that the company is attempting to circumvent? Does the logic escape you?

"It's your mortage, medical insurance, pension, and income -- not mine."

More drama....and you forgot the schmaltzy piano music and string section. In fact why not use this imagery against those who are picking this fight...and attempting to breach a written contract. AHEM!!!

"I wrote about a reasonable solution that deserved reasonable debate, but I'm tired of writing about it. It's your party and your risk where all overhaul mechanics could lose thier job if the company wins the appeal in a court where a Rendell presides."

And we're tired of reading your writing. Now you express contemptuous indifference because your comments are just not resonating here. Verbal darwinism...gotta love it.

"Then you would be like Southwest mechanics, with no overhaul."

An argument with increasingly less teeth as time goes by. Go now. Use your vast web acumen, the same you wield so skillfully in scavenge hunts for self-serving stuff to post, and find out how much in-house work WN does or does not do. Go solicit info from WN mechanics on the various commercial aviation oriented websites. The key here is the relative trends. I figure this is a better reponse than a 2 word one that would breach decorum.

"Considering Dave Siegel is vindictive (just ask the Allegheny and Piedmont pilots) it would not surprise me if the company wins the appeal you get your clocks cleaned."

Big time sour grapes on your inability to shape opinions in the matter on this BB...either that, or the deep down disdain you may have felt all along surfaces now. I don't know, but are you suggesting making a deal with a vindictive party?

...and to think this all started from a link to a re-hash of a 2-3 week old article. Nothing like the commanding power of the printed word in the press to validate eh? Pffft!

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Chip,

UAL ALPA had a no furlough clause, and look what it got us.

737nCH11,

Don't allow facts like this to obscure Chips vision of our futures.


BY the way Chippper....I'll take my chances with the honorable Mrs. Rendell in court...she just might be just a pissed off at Dave as her husband the Governor of Pa. is....Yep , this is a fight worth taking to the mat....and WE are not going to lose !!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

United's mechanics agreed to outsourcing and could a key to a pending United - US Airways merger be for US Airways to outsource the A320 overhaul?

Moreover, if the IAM is successful in blocking US Airways' attempt to outsource the A320 heavy maintenance could this prevent the merger?

Could the IAM's action actually be to prevent an integration of US Airways' IAM mechanics and United's AMFA mechanics?

In fact, could the IAM leadership be self serving in this legal battle, versus looking out for the collective good of their members?

Would a no furlough clause going into a merger be a good thing or the risk of getting your clock cleaned be better?

Something to think about while lying in bed at night...

Hummmm....

Regards,

Chip

 

[USA320Pilot]

737 and AOG:

737 said; “UAL ALPA had a no furlough clause, and look what it got us.â€￾

AOG Said: “Don't allow facts like this to obscure Chips vision of our futures.â€￾

Chip comments: 737, true, but you had a S.1113 motion and loaded gun to your head during the bankruptcy process. That’s not the case with the US Airways mechanics.

Regards,

Chip

 

[repeet]

Ok Chip you win.

No matter how we feel about outsourcing, that is the path our management at US Airways has chosen.

Since contracts and historical work rolls must be sacrificed in order to get our CASMs in line with the LCCs, here's the next step. Pilot outsourcing.

Mr. Jonathan Ornstein at Mesa has summed it up.
""I have no problems >filling my new hire Pilot classes". And thats at $55K per year. Therefore its your, and your fellow ALPA Pilots, duty to accept either a pay cut in line with the current supply and demand, or step out of the way so that the company can utilize its perferred course of outsourcing jobs.

I, for one, will be more than happy to lobby for this tremendous cost savings to my former employer.

 

[T-bone]

:down: Chip you do speak with a seriously forked tongue. What happened to the angry chip they are trying to steel my pension. Sleeping with the hawk or devil as it may be has not made your posts any moe intelligent just back stabbing rotten to the core.

Your boast of we we're the only ones to meet the company wish list only makes me want to puke. The pilots did not reach the give till it hurts the company wanted, and all other groups matched the pilot percentage.

We cut our pensions to save the company. Again I am gagging. How did you vote? Did you have a vote? If this went over so well with the troops, why did you recall the pilot rep?

United mechs agreed to out source. Indeed with a gun to their head in ch-11.

No furlough clause,Ha, Ha, HA, Hee, Hee oooohh you are breaking some wind here. ?Did dave get you to drink purple kool aid? That clause would not be worth the fools scrap it would be written on. Just like dave wants to make the rest of our contracts.

The IAM killed EAL. Please do a little research. these boys took it up the keester a long time and then continued to move A/C untill they were LOCKED OUT!

?How would you react when dave comes up with a plan to out sourse pilots to a group of airbus trained scabs from say a right to work state? What thats not possible. Well now who's not thinking out of the box!

Chip your definately part of the problem on this one. You trying to put this stuff on a resume for dave to hire you?

FELLING LIKE I'M BEING-----

 

[T-bone]

United's mechanics agreed to outsourcing and could a key to a pending United - US Airways merger be for US Airways to outsource the A320 overhaul?

Moreover, if the IAM is successful in blocking US Airways' attempt to outsource the A320 heavy maintenance could this prevent the merger?

Could the IAM's action actually be to prevent an integration of US Airways' IAM mechanics and United's AMFA mechanics?

NO---------In the event that you don't know, which is what I'm assuming to be the case otherwise you wouldn't post such rubish is, during a merger there would be a run off election to determine the Union representation. In this case after seeing what scamfa has done, the IAM has nothing to fear but fear it self.

 

[supercruiser]

The company, if it wanted to outsource the airbus work, should have addressed the issue while the contracts were amended in Chapter 11. Not after the fact.

Precisely. The company could have and should have dealt with this issue in Ch 11, but chose not to. They have jerked all the labor groups around both before, during, and after Ch 11. "Agree to this, and if we file Ch 11, we won't request anything further(BS)....Agree to this, or if you don't we'll liquidate(more BS)....Agree to this and we won't come after your pilot pension(more BS again)" It goes on and on, and obviously continues now, as airplanes sit while the company plays around within the legal system as the holidays approach.

Management has no credibility left with probably anyone except Chip. He still believes that the casm of our EMB170's are going to be less than jetBlue's EMB190's, because someone from management said so.

Overall, it's been a spectacular failure at just about every level, except in their successful rush to emerge from Ch 11, unfortunately with a business plan that is turning out to be a joke. Yes, SWA must be licking their chops.

supercruiser