Be Careful What You Wish For.
Veteran
- Dec 23, 2006
- 2,269
- 571
As usual you have no idea of what reality is.
US AFA Votes Yes
- Thread starter usfliboi
- Start date
This has to be the most irrational group of retards. There is no way these people could merge with DAL and function in a non-union environment where they actually are proactive.
Onestep2flt
Senior
- Sep 27, 2007
- 386
- 155
Nobody is telling you to vote no. The poster was making the point that the local leaders should be able to either endorse it and send it out to members, or send it back to the negotiating committee. Instead they sent a confusing message by voting to send it out with some kind of neutral stance. Not for it or against it. This is a political cop out and they convince you it is better for you to decide. Another words they don't do their job. You are either going to be a leader or not. Sometimes they must make decisions that are not going to be popular. If they think it is the only option they should endorse it. If they think it is not the right agreement for their member they should say so by sending it back. It is really that simple.
Instead it looks like another playground argument ensued. Was it not these very leaders that said you must speak with one voice? They did not follow their own prescription. All of them voted something different and in the end you end up with a new political category of neutral. Of course this is like China abstaining in a UN vote about sanctions on human rights somewhere else. They don't want to vote yes because they themselves might be the next target. They don't want to vote no because they would look insensitive politically to the rest of the world. So, they just abstain. (Sorry for the political analogy) I am sure there was a lot going on in their minds but this is just the wrong thing to do in my opinion.
OP
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #20
I am fine with the LEC not giving me advice on how to vote...They do not know any better than I do what is good for me. Ms Campbell doesnt like the seperation from the pilots because her partner is a pilot...Thats why she doesnt like it and it is vivid for me that she does NOT have MY best interest at heart. Good for her but most see thru that!
CLTBWIDAYSYR
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 499
- 9
All I want to know is when are they going to post the bloody thing?! It's 2012, the age of electronic and digital media. Can someone at AFA not hit the "send" button?
CLTBWIDAYSYR
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 499
- 9
Just got this email:
Message from your LEC President - The TA
Dear xxxx,
As you have now heard we have reached a TA that is going to be sent out to the members for ratification.
I am not currently able to give all of the reasons that I support a "no" vote at this time. Please know that I did not make the decision that I did lightly. When we are able to put information in the TA out to the membership, I will explain to the membership why I voted the way I did. I will then put out elines to the membership giving them information that will be good, bad, and any language that has changed or remained the same.
I want the members to be able to make an informed decision for themselves but be given the full information and resources to do so.
Each member will be sent a summary to their homes and the complete TA will be able to be viewed on the MEC website and on Wings. Please make sure that you sign up for the MEC elines and for CLT elines. If you have problems doing so, please contact your local office so they can assist you in signing up for them. If you have been in arrears with your AFA dues ensure with the International Office that your status is in "Good Standing" so that you will be eligible to have your vote counted.
The JNC will start their roadshows around the middle to the end of February. When it comes time to vote it will be done with a paper ballot and you will have 28 days to vote.
In Solidarity,
Cathy
Message from your LEC President - The TA
Dear xxxx,
As you have now heard we have reached a TA that is going to be sent out to the members for ratification.
I am not currently able to give all of the reasons that I support a "no" vote at this time. Please know that I did not make the decision that I did lightly. When we are able to put information in the TA out to the membership, I will explain to the membership why I voted the way I did. I will then put out elines to the membership giving them information that will be good, bad, and any language that has changed or remained the same.
I want the members to be able to make an informed decision for themselves but be given the full information and resources to do so.
Each member will be sent a summary to their homes and the complete TA will be able to be viewed on the MEC website and on Wings. Please make sure that you sign up for the MEC elines and for CLT elines. If you have problems doing so, please contact your local office so they can assist you in signing up for them. If you have been in arrears with your AFA dues ensure with the International Office that your status is in "Good Standing" so that you will be eligible to have your vote counted.
The JNC will start their roadshows around the middle to the end of February. When it comes time to vote it will be done with a paper ballot and you will have 28 days to vote.
In Solidarity,
Cathy
N965VJ
Veteran
I can think of one former LECP that would've told their membership to vote no. Anybody care to guess who?
Most? Are you counting the mouse in your pocket?
Dumping "Me Too" is going to bite you in the butt.
Onestep2flt
Senior
- Sep 27, 2007
- 386
- 155
Listen, I did not say that they may not have personal motivation. I get what you are saying there. If that is the case it should come out in questioning. This is one of the problems that seems to have plagued AFA for some time. I can't argue with you there. However, the way you stated it is that you don't think they should be telling anyone how to vote. My argument here is that you as an individual do not have to follow their advice. That is all it is. It is their own opinion and guidance for you to ponder. I look at it like going to court. The savvy defendant will take an attorney with them. That attorney SHOULD know the laws for which you are accused of breaking and offer you guidance on how to proceed. You are under no personal obligation to follow their guidance anymore than your union leader offering guidance as to which way to proceed to vote on the tentative agreement. They are not telling you how you must vote merely offering guidance to their constituents. We are on the same page in the feeling that no one should tell you how to vote. I do however believe that the leaders DO have an obligation to put out guidance and the reasons why this guidance has been issued. They may not be any smarter than you but they SHOULD know more than you regarding the contract as it sits. They have been briefed over and over for the last seven years. They should be privy to info you do not have. Such as company financial state, possible motivations such as mergers or other info they can't share with you. It should be a risk based analysis based on many factors that you as their constituent might not have. However, I concede that personal gain or loss in the case of separation from a loved one is not a move of an intelligence. My question to you would be, Have you asked her her motivation for recommending a no vote? I know she can tell you a tall tale but until you ask I think it is premature to share this info as fact.
My concern here is that your company has miraculously decided after seven years that they will be nice and finally finish negotiations because of their labor friendly spirit. They have some motivation other the spirit of cooperation. The news conveniently timed this week may shed some light. This news could have been leaked to throw some FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) on your party. This should be no surprise that this is a classic negotiating maneuver. You finally know that the rumor is true and it brings a certain amount of fear to the process.
Our opinions on the process appear to be different. I am o.k. with that. In the end the members will have the final say and that is exactly what I want too.
OP
usfliboi
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 2,070
- 270
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #28
I can think of one former LECP that would've told their membership to vote no. Anybody care to guess who?
Most? Are you counting the mouse in your pocket?
Me too is irrelevent today...... Im sorry it use to work but doesnt anymore>>>In fact if our Union did its job we wont need a me too clause...Just saying! This is 2012 not 1989....
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Question for the group.
Should the LEC President or MEC President give any recommendation whatsoever. Shouldn't their role be one of education? Making sure members know what they're voting for/against?
Should the LEC President or MEC President give any recommendation whatsoever. Shouldn't their role be one of education? Making sure members know what they're voting for/against?
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