Alpa Code A Phone 9/6 #2

[Hawk]

It's not over yet. The employees should not give up hope.

 

[Rico]

Sorry, but I don't agree. I stand by what I said in my last point. You don't seem to understand how the collective bargaining process works. The RC4 were elected by the membership, and as others have pointed out they represent a majority of the pilots.

The process is set up that way for a reason. When you bypass the process, you negate your collective bargaining strength, and the union becomes irrelevant.

[post="176672"][/post]​

Yeah, THAT IS the point.

I am all and fine with the process, and I understand it quite well thank you, but the process has to have a fundamental basis to make it work.

The company needs to think the members support the union leadership

If you were the company right now, would you...?
(Watching these three to four guys forced to resort to a roll call, not on the proposal, but to keep it from being sent out for membership ratification...)

Now, instead, IF a proposal is sent out to the membership, and voted down. THEN it is no longer just three to four guys voting against it, but the majority of the pilots.

Now as the company, you take the negotiating process more serious. You you "give" to "get" the required votes. You do not keep sending worse proposals across the table.

Yeah, I know the process, and if it has fallen apart to the point where a roll call is needed to keep the pilots from voting, then the "process" can only be salvaged by a pilot mandate. It has fallen apart because at the core of this issue...

The company does not think the pilots support the union leadership

Blah blah, negotiation tactics blah blah. If the company does not think you have the real support of the pilots, then negotiation tactics are merely useless games. The only thing that will matter now is a vote of the membership, not a million roll calls.

And what we have seen in the last few weeks only proves my case.

 

[Rico]

Oh and BTW, if you want to know why I am keyed up for a vote, because it is only in such times that my voice is heard, my issues given real concern.

I am in the PHL council (was in PIT), and so are a couple of hundred other MDA pilots, all of whom have issues that have seen little to NO attention from those suppposedly representing us.

Yeah, I understand the collective bargining process, and I understand union politics very well. A few hundred votes could make all the difference in any decision. In case no one has noticed, MDA is here to stay, and is as much a part of the Mainline union as any other part of AAA ALPA.

Furloughed pilots get no vote, but we do.

But thanks to the these four guys, that right has been stripped from us, and every other Airways pilot..., including you 767.

Face it, there are going to be a lot more MDA pilots in the future, many of whom are at the Mainline right now. If better attention were payed to issues (related to MDA), then these four guys might actually have the support they need to make the opposition listen, and more importantly to get the company's attention...

But instead, they only have a roll call to defend what they (and everyone else) assumes is the minority opinion...

 

[willyloman]

The pilots didn't stand up, only 3 pilots made a stand...if the membership would of voted it down...i would say the pilots made a stand...totally irresponsible for not letting the pilots vote

[post="176594"][/post]​

Those three pilots representg the MAJORITY, and MAJORITY urged their representatives to not put out such an onerous offer for a vote.

 

[willyloman]

Actually, some analysts claim that indeed the company is not worth more in parts..but we'll see. Its a sad day and I don't know what will happen--I think it will be left up to the courts but I'm concerned that no on will want to pony up any money while we are Chapter 11 and that will be our demise.

[post="176616"][/post]​

Perhaps in Chapter 11, the judge will make management implement the $700 million that they've supposedly identified in operational savings. Oh, that's right, they can't do it until 2007.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Those three pilots representg the MAJORITY, and MAJORITY urged their representatives to not put out such an onerous offer for a vote.

[post="176710"][/post]​

What is with everybody? Gee whiz, these four guys were just doing what their membership wanted them to do. It's also interesting to note many CLT pilots are relieved as well. Seems their LEC was not listening to their needs. Oh well.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Okay Hawk, throw us a bone here. What are you implying? New investor, renegotiated deals with creditors, Bronner pumping more money into this? C'mon, inquiring minds want to know.

 

[pitguy]

I wonder if the pilot group could have a successful strike or would a bunch of them cross.

 

[willyloman]

What is with everybody? Gee whiz, these four guys were just doing what their membership wanted them to do. It's also interesting to note many CLT pilots are relieved as well. Seems their LEC was not listening to their needs. Oh well.

[post="176715"][/post]​

I don't know, either. PIT and PHL bases collectively have a greater number of pilots than all the other bases combined. Therefore, they are the MAJORITY, and they DO NOT WANT an onerous management shoved down their throats. The MINORITY are represented by the likes of edited and his chorus of dancing edited, who were willing to give whatever management would ask of them.
Aren't you glad that the MAJORITY rules?

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I don't know, either. PIT and PHL bases collectively have a greater number of pilots than all the other bases combined. Therefore, they are the MAJORITY, and they DO NOT WANT an onerous management shoved down their throats. The MINORITY are represented by the likes of edited and his chorus of dancing edited, who were willing to give whatever management would ask of them.
Aren't you glad that the MAJORITY rules?

[post="176728"][/post]​

willylowman, if the Majority really ruled Gore would be President right now.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I was at half of the six MEC meetings last week and the majority of the pilot's who attended urged the MEC to permit the pilot group to vote. As Jack Stephen commented in the news media, only three pilots out of 40 or 50 that attended during one day spoke in support of the RC4. It's a big difference to hold the voting authority of a large base and to not vote with their sentiment.

I suspect you will be surprised tomorrow with what appears in the news media about the RC4 and their activity.

The only way to truly know what the base sentiment is to allow the ran-and-file to vote. Why not? It's fair and democratic, unless you're a dictator like Fidel Castro.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Gee, don't tell me, you called the newspapers and offered up the dirt? Shameless....

 

[Harry Callahan]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling !

 

[TheLarkAscending]

I suspect you will be surprised tomorrow with what appears in the news media about the RC4 and their activity.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!

 

[hp_fa]

If it is true that had a member vote been allowed on a TA, whether a accepted or rejected by membership, and that the Union would then lose the right to self-help if the BK judge imposes a contract then these men did the ALPA members a favor by preserving future options. If the judge imposes a contract, the Union can then have a strike vote and decide whether or not to accept the terms. Had they allowed a vote now, on what they believe is a flawed contract, the right to strike would have been simply wasted.