RECALL of Council 70 President! Merged Topics

[N109UW]

17 years in PHL? you should hold your own with no problem...where are you based? PIT? I have less that 16 and get er done in 10 to 12 days no problem...learn the systems in place and make them work for you...

Don't tell me how to work the system. If you have a life, you look forward to having your bid days off, but if you do that you end up with 73 hours and no per diem. That is just wrong. I commuted for over 8 years, until my RSV seniority was good enough not to get quick called and I could hold trips. That was until my union negoitiated it away. Trust me, I "thank" them every chance I get. CLT needs a wholesale sweep also. Our prior LECP got voted out, due to the fact that he lost touch with all the RSV's. His solution to this new LTO was for all RSV's make themselves available for quickcall. Just what a 15 year F/A should have to do. Gues what, he got voted out and then he quit becuase he was taking so much crap back on line. Then we elcted M.F., who had no experience, but could it have been worse than the former LECP. We took the chance. Sad part is, M.F. left to be MECP and that left a person who never wanted to be LECP in the position. Due you think they ever put in a new Sec.? No, that would mean new blood in the office. Safer just to leave the position open. Again, we were sold this system in conjunction with Pref. Bid. "to be implemented no later than June 2004". Remember RSV override? Where is that? Yep, they gave that up also. But we still have SAP and Sec. Bid. So who lost there. Every RSV did to the tune of about $400,000 total. Did our union care, hell no. Cleen sweep works for me. Get some new fresh aggressive people in there.

 

[700UW]

You and your fellow FAs ratified the concessions, the AFA is not just your leaders, it is every rank and file FA.

 

[aredeeyou22]

Stop bitching. Are you an idiot? Pick up trips on our precious days off. Why the hell should we have to? Where the hell is Pref. Bidding? We were sold this new LTO system on the basis that we were getting a preferential bidding system( oh, but that would also mean getting rid of the bid sheet, so we can't do that. Why was there not a clause that said if Pref Bid was not implemented" no later than June 2004" we would go back to the old RSV system. Might it be due to the fact our union cares very little for RSV's? I would say yes to that. Our commuters should not have to "move to a base" to get there time in. Theie senoirity would hold trips, but wait, our union gave up RSV senoirity. Sorry, I forgot. Find another job? Kiss my "you know what. At over 17 years, I shouldn't have to. I should be able to P/U trips with my senoirity. Our union really let us down on this one.

Hi 109,

I agree completely with you!The RSV system is a joke! If you live in base (as I do), it is ok.... If I could hold a block, I would still bid RSV. Unfortunately, thru base closures etc, most of the base commutes, and that stinks.

Unfortunately, Pref. bidding was never instituted, and I have heard many reasons why. I have been told, however, that the company was never obligated to implement it. (Anyone know if that's a fact or not?) Some sort of clause would have been nice, but I suppose with liquidation thrown in their face constantly, the neg. committee took what they took....

You say our "union really let us down on this one..." I have to disagree. You see, all we had to do was vote it down, kinda like NW has! If the tentative was so horrible and unworkable for so many, why did it pass? Why did something like 270 (give or take) FA's out of 2000 in PHL even BOTHER TO VOTE? Where were the rest? Sorry, but blaming the union for all of the problems now does not wash with me. If people bothered to educate themselves and take the time to make informed decisions, we might not be in this mess. (I think Travelpro72 in a previous post said that the crew he is currently flying with has NO IDEA what is going on with the recall and the union right now....I rest my case..nothing has changed...)

 

[aredeeyou22]

Well just WHO when you say everyone moves their schedules around on reserve to accomodate ETB? NOBODY. It's out from 10am and in by 6pm period. He also was an appointed position by L.A. working in the office. He was NOT elected so why would he be REQUIRED to be in the office 5 days a week? Should the elected people in the office have been taking of care of daily union business and M.E. doing what was needed as far as "reserve" issues? I do want people to understand that what he did in the office was FOR the f/a's. I'm not saying that he didn't work hard for us. NOT AT ALL! ! When you have someone that is fighting for the very reserves that can't make it barely from check to check with the hours he had you'll have issues. I don't care how some claim he NEEDED to be in the office 5 days a week and off on the weekends. So basically he could say, "Hey, I understand you reserves are broke but I NEED to arrange my schedule to better help you in the office and rake in a HUGE check". Sorry but you can't blame some for thinking the system was being abused there. Great that he helped but the arranging of days to accomodate ETB will never be justified. So L.A. made him look bad when SHE was the one who approved all he did whether you feel it right or wrong. That is where she is to blame and responsible. On top of everything else the Phantom President did.

Travelpro,
I am assuming this is directed at me, so I'll respond...

I never said "everyone moves their schedules around on RSV to accommodate ETB..." I said 1) *ALOT* of people, BH and RSV's alike, have senior people who feed them good trips directly. It is a fact, it is allowed, so why can't ME do it too? and 2) I did say that ME gets weekends off because he is in the office M-F.. so what? You want his life of working M-F in the office and working ETBs on the weekend, then you should have applied for the position! Again, NOTHING wrong with him having weekends off if he is working M-F. 100% justified.

Umm, yah, the elected officials should have been taking care of daily business, but, with the exception of TG they weren't, and I maintain that we were very lucky to have ME and his expertise in there....

How was ME arranging his schedule to "rake in " a huge check? He worked M-F in the office, got paid for it, and worked ETB on the weekends. It is totally justified! Where's the problem? I don't care if he gets 200 hours a month and worked Rome ETB 4 weekends a month, as long as he is in the office for the time he is being paid for! That is (was) his obligation to you and me! His days off are his days off! If I chose to fly ETB on EVERY day off, I could probably get 68 hours on ETB if I did 3 Intl and two 7 hour one days.. Thats a 141 hour paycheck (roughly)!!! Why people think he was sitting in that office doing nothing but laughing at the RSV's while he collects a check for doing nothing I'll never know....

I am also not sure that the "phantom President" approved all ME did. He and TG ran that office for a long time, mainly by themselves, prior to this "shake up." Perhaps you should be glad he was there for the membership, and direct your anger where it belongs: the LECP.

Thank you.

 

[N109UW]

Hi 109,

I agree completely with you!The RSV system is a joke! If you live in base (as I do), it is ok.... If I could hold a block, I would still bid RSV. Unfortunately, thru base closures etc, most of the base commutes, and that stinks.

Unfortunately, Pref. bidding was never instituted, and I have heard many reasons why. I have been told, however, that the company was never obligated to implement it. (Anyone know if that's a fact or not?) Some sort of clause would have been nice, but I suppose with liquidation thrown in their face constantly, the neg. committee took what they took....

You say our "union really let us down on this one..." I have to disagree.

I'm not sure of your seniority, however, during the last contract, we were told that we would have a Pref. Bidding system and I quote" to be implemented no later than June 2004". What are you talking about, that there was no obligation to put this in. I didn't see that clause anywhere. And if there was, our union let us down again, as we should have been advised of this. I live in base, I just don't like to give my days off up to get a paycheck. Our neg. committee came down here and told us this was going to be a good system ansd that Pref. Bidding would create more blocks, so more RSV's would soon be holdong blocks. If I am correct, wasn't TG on that committee? I have never broke Min. Guarantee, since the LTO system was put in place and that was OCT 2003, almost three years and nothing has been done. That is pathetic. Another joke is, we have 30 year F/A's, who used to be on the 55 hour option, bidding RSV due to the fact they only have to work 8 days a month a get 73 hours. A lot better deal than the original 55 option. Do you think either, the company or our union enviosioned that. No way. They dropped the ball. RSV's were shafted bigtime.

 

[aredeeyou22]

I'm not sure of your seniority, however, during the last contract, we were told that we would have a Pref. Bidding system and I quote" to be implemented no later than June 2004". What are you talking about, that there was no obligation to put this in. I didn't see that clause anywhere. And if there was, our union let us down again, as we should have been advised of this. I live in base, I just don't like to give my days off up to get a paycheck. Our neg. committee came down here and told us this was going to be a good system ansd that Pref. Bidding would create more blocks, so more RSV's would soon be holdong blocks. If I am correct, wasn't TG on that committee? I have never broke Min. Guarantee, since the LTO system was put in place and that was OCT 2003, almost three years and nothing has been done. That is pathetic. Another joke is, we have 30 year F/A's, who used to be on the 55 hour option, bidding RSV due to the fact they only have to work 8 days a month a get 73 hours. A lot better deal than the original 55 option. Do you think either, the company or our union enviosioned that. No way. They dropped the ball. RSV's were shafted bigtime.

Wait. I am confused. The union was told when they negotiated the last concessionary contract, that we would have Pref Bidding by June 2004. (Taking your word for that, can't find it in the latest contract.) That was in the CONTRACT. The Company essentially broke the contract, and did not implement this system as planned. Exactly how is that the fault of the union? They agreed to the provision, and expected it to be implemented! What would you suggest the Union do (other than file a grievance?) How could it be handled differently? I am sure the company has excuse after excuse as to why that was never implemented. Just don't see it being the fault of the union (correct me if I am wong....)

I cannot say if TG was or was not on the Neg Committee of the last concessionary contract. I will find out though.

You say that we have 30 year FA's bidding RSV because of how little we have to work. Do you blame them? I am **SURE** that is not how the Union or the Company envisioned it, but why would that make you upset? It creates more blocks for the junior people!

I will agree that RSV's were shafted. Always are. Inherently, there are more BH's at an airline, and the union negotiates for the majority (hence the bid sheet!) Not saying it's right, just saying that's how it is.... Let's just hope that they try and preserve as much as possible for when we are in their shoes! Oh yah, and pick up a couple 1 days on the ETB and sit back, relax, and enjoy 20 days off like I did last month! With an88 hour paycheck! Make the best of what we have (or don't have!) and strive to change it when we can! Negotiations are ongoing, and we need to make sure that Mgmt and Union leaders understand that COST NEUTRAL is not going to cut it. At all.

Thank you.

 

[N109UW]

Wait. I am confused. The union was told when they negotiated the last concessionary contract, that we would have Pref Bidding by June 2004. (Taking your word for that, can't find it in the latest contract.) That was in the CONTRACT. The Company essentially broke the contract, and did not implement this system as planned. Exactly how is that the fault of the union? They agreed to the provision, and expected it to be implemented! What would you suggest the Union do (other than file a grievance?) How could it be handled differently? I am sure the company has excuse after excuse as to why that was never implemented. Just don't see it being the fault of the union (correct me if I am wong....)

I cannot say if TG was or was not on the Neg Committee of the last concessionary contract. I will find out though.



Thank you.

When we voted on our concessionary contract, it was stated in all the things that were given out to us, and you can ask TG about that, she will back me up, that the new RSV system and a Pref. Bidding would be implemented no later than June 2004. Of course the company puts the new LTO system in place Oct. 2003. An immediate drop of 50% flying for all RSV's. And if you don't recall, that is the same time the Fed. judge imposed a 21% paycut, which was on top of the 13% paycut we took in the first round. Do the math. 34% paycut and 50% less flying per month. As you recall or don't, the ETB didn't come until later, when they got rid of all the options. After going from 98 hours to 52 in one month, I called my then LECP about what we should do. The RSV's had just taken the biggest paycuts, far larger than any blockholder ever took. His adice, do quickcall. Guess what. He ain't in office no more. He couldn't get the 455 votes from BH's to offset every RSV voting against him. In DEC 2003, I spoke with Ann Crawley and Glenda Talley on speakerphone and they said "Don't worry, you should hold a block come June 2004, when we get Pref. Bidding" I told them that I would lose over $10,000 in that 7 month period, but not to worry as they both were getting FPL and this cut wouldn't effect them. Called them again in July 2004 and inquired about Pref. Bid and the deadline of June 2004. I was told neither side could agree on a vender(3 were looked at). The feeling was Ok to put the LTO system in, but don't worry about that Pref. Bid part. They said also that June 2004 "was just a target date". Do you see were I am going here, Just look at the track record.

 

[aredeeyou22]

When we voted on our concessionary contract, it was stated in all the things that were given out to us, and you can ask TG about that, she will back me up, that the new RSV system and a Pref. Bidding would be implemented no later than June 2004. Of course the company puts the new LTO system in place Oct. 2003. An immediate drop of 50% flying for all RSV's. And if you don't recall, that is the same time the Fed. judge imposed a 21% paycut, which was on top of the 13% paycut we took in the first round. Do the math. 34% paycut and 50% less flying per month. As you recall or don't, the ETB didn't come until later, when they got rid of all the options. After going from 98 hours to 52 in one month, I called my then LECP about what we should do. The RSV's had just taken the biggest paycuts, far larger than any blockholder ever took. His adice, do quickcall. Guess what. He ain't in office no more. He couldn't get the 455 votes from BH's to offset every RSV voting against him. In DEC 2003, I spoke with Ann Crawley and Glenda Talley on speakerphone and they said "Don't worry, you should hold a block come June 2004, when we get Pref. Bidding" I told them that I would lose over $10,000 in that 7 month period, but not to worry as they both were getting FPL and this cut wouldn't effect them. Called them again in July 2004 and inquired about Pref. Bid and the deadline of June 2004. I was told neither side could agree on a vender(3 were looked at). The feeling was Ok to put the LTO system in, but don't worry about that Pref. Bid part. They said also that June 2004 "was just a target date". Do you see were I am going here, Just look at the track record.

109,

I agree with you 100%. The whole situation is just a nightmare. I am just saying that I don't think the union ever expected the Company to not implement Pref Bidding. I realize the hardship it has had on us, believe me.

So what's your issue with the union? That AC and GT continued to take FPL while you took a huge paycut? Did you want them to step down to "feel your pain?" Do you honestly think because AFA and USAir could not agree on a "vendor", that that is why we dont have Pref Bid? I doubt that. The company didnt want to do it, plain and simple. Did they ever intend to implement? I would think so, but who knows!

What else could the Union have done in response to the Company's indifference? I think the anger should be directed towards the company, not the LECs....

Wish we could get that many people to vote in PHL !!!

 

[N109UW]

I feel that there should have been a snap back clause in there, just in case it was never implemented. We were led to believe that they were tied together, just like Reserve override and SAP.

 

[xoxo]

I wish our senior f/a's in PHL would bid reserve.. :down: fat chance though since around 80% of PHL commutes(they would not give up their Trans Atlantic for reserve...never)

 

[BajaBabe]

let's get back to square ONE we need to call for a meeting to hear the charges that involve the representatives of Council 70. I personally have done trips on the 737, cleaned airplanes and NO ONE can relate to any of this until they actually cross seat belts pick up dirty diapers after the aircraft has been cleaned by the cleaning crew and it goes down hill from there.
Reserves and Blockholders you live in different worlds and you all can not hear the life the other one lives that is the shame and on this the company and Union can distroy your Spirit.I look forward to Change you don't like what you live with now so Adjust.
When you cast judgement on TG,ME,LA know the facts Although we all feel that we are the manna of the flight attendants you need to take a Pulse Rate to truly see how your peers are viewing you. ME is an upcoming positive person is he all that NO !!! we all take baby steps before you can become a leader and this can not be from gleeming positions that otherwise would not be afforded you. I am rambling as LA said to me you could not put 2 sentences together and the company thinks your an idiot. That to me was a compliment if there norm is L.A.

 

[aredeeyou22]

LA worked a 1 day today! A really hard 4 legger, to!!! On Labor Day! Seeeeee, she is labor friendly, with our best interests at heart.

 

[Twicebaked]

LA worked a 1 day today! A really hard 4 legger, to!!! On Labor Day! Seeeeee, she is labor friendly, with our best interests at heart.

You guys need to stop!!! Nitpicking everything that LA,TG or ME is doing is immature. We are adults! Let's start acting like it!!!

This is making a mockery of the AFA and everything that it stands for.

You people are making the flight attendant group at US look like a bunch of immature, back stabbing, DELTED (with some reservations..... )

STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aredeeyou22]

You guys need to stop!!! Nitpicking everything that LA,TG or ME is doing is immature. We are adults! Let's start acting like it!!!

This is making a mockery of the AFA and everything that it stands for.

You people are making the flight attendant group at US look like a bunch of immature, back stabbing, DELTED (with some reservations..... )

STOP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? How can I "nitpick" when I have not heard from my LECP in over 3 weeks? Did she lock herself out of the office by accident?

 

[proudf/a]

MEOW! OH Waiter!!! Saucer of milk please and some Fancy Feast for Table 2.

OMG, how funny is that!