Union vs Non Union My Response

[Kev3188]

Kev,

I was busy working 12 hours per day along with my fellow workers keeping thousands of people working and keeping an airline flying safely.

... Not to mention setting the labor movement back 50+ years.

 

[T5towbar]

T5towbar,

1857! Wow please move into this century. Its 2009 you may need to update your calendar and your thought process. Times have changed and not always for the better.

Yeah right....
That quote means a whole lot. It's a timeless quote, and if you knew your history, it was about one thing........STRUGGLE. Even in this day and age. If you don't ask (and fight for), you don't get. Period. That's what the labor movement stood for. You think the management is going to look out for the employees. It's about themselves and shareholders. Not about the employees who do the work. Unless you are a forward thinking executive (which they are very very few), it took struggle by the labor unions to level the playing field and give us the benefits we have today. Even non-union workplaces saw the light and wanted to match or go above the benefits the union people fought for.

You think that Dick Anderson (who learned is craft at the feet of the worst airline executive of all time - Frank Lorenzo - who nearly destroyed THREE airlines) is going to do right by you? The NW employees coming into this merger know what they are talking about, not blowing smoke. Most of them feel they want to keep the representation they currently have. I don't think that the DL employees are clear on what Dickie is about....yet. Look at it this way: If you are successful company with a good relationship with your employees, and then your company is getting a new boss and bringing a new group of employees who have experienced strife from the new boss. Well how would you feel about that? I know that you want to welcome the new people with open arms, but it is going to take a while because the new employees know that the new boss can't be trusted.

Let the votes take place and see what happens.

It's not about being pro or anti-union. It's about management doing right by their employees. If Dickie was a forward thinking executive, and treated his employees well, I'm quite sure that this discussion wouldn't even be taking place. The only argument(s) would be about merging the seniority lists, not about representation.

I don't want to pick a fight with you, Vimes. But this is the airline business, and nearly every employee in the last 7 or 8 years took so many hits and cuts and made sacrifices to keep our respective airlines afloat and profitable. I'm no fool, and I realize I can't have back everything I've lost, but don't tell me that I as an airline employee just have to keep giving up more and more and more...

 

[Vimes]

On behalf of my fellow A&P's (AMTs) thank you I am not there alone.

 

[Vimes]

Havn't been on this board for a while. It was getting sleepy. I see things have changed. I'm just going to add my two cents.

I would like a union. Currently as a DL AMT I have an at will contract with DL. That means they set the terms and can change them whenever without out any imput from me or my agent. Within the labor laws they can change my work hours, my work location, my pay, my healthcare, and my retirement. I'm sure there are more, that's all I can think of right now. I know they can do these things, they have done all of these things to me in the last 10 years.

I had three choices. Accept it, strike, or quit. Yes, I could have gone on strike. It would have been fired most likely and been the only one outside the hangar with a sign so that was a non option. I really couldn't quit either. Tough to explain that one when you get home. "Today they took away my pension. I showed them, I quit." That left me with the accept option. I'm 100% sure if I had taken the quit option and gone to work selling cell phones or sprinkler systems, things at home would be better. I don't think I would enjoy those jobs though. That is why I choose accept.

If we AMT's at DL had been union, I'm sure we would have given up some of the same things we have given up. With a union we would have had a collective voice. I would have had a contract that could only be changed if the company and my agent agreed. Yes, I know in Chpt 11 the judge has the final say. Yes, I also think AMFA did a poor job at NW. Looking back they should have struck at the first offer rejection. Instead they waited until NW had all the dregs of the AMT world lined up.

Let's get back to the 'At will contract'. For you anti union folk this is the way to go. I ask you this. Would you buy a car with a contract where the lender could change the payment for any reason they see fit, but your only recourse was to give up the car? How about a home loan where the bank could raise your rate anytime. You pay the mortgage on time but times are bad for the bank, so up goes the rate. If you don't like it, move out. Sounds absurd, but that is exactly the type of contract your income is tied to.

Dal,

"At will contract" is a bit of a misnomer with a company the size of NW/DL, at will really doesnt exist. There are multiple reasons for this, Federal Employment Laws, State Employment Laws and every agency there in to support any claims against companies that fall under said agency's jurisdiction. I agree there are issues that could be addressed, but I think that there are better more contemporary methods that could be used to address these issues and I think they would be more effective.

You said "If we AMT's at DL had been union, I'm sure we would have given up some of the same things we have given up. With a union we would have had a collective voice." Yet you also state you do not think that voice would have done you any good? What then would you have been paying for?

Then you said "I could have gone on strike. It would have been fired most likely and been the only one outside the hangar with a sign so that was a non option" honestly striking in most cases doesnt do anyone any good.

Then you said "I really couldn't quit either. Tough to explain that one when you get home. "Today they took away my pension. I showed them, I quit."" I'm 100% sure if I had taken the quit option and gone to work selling cell phones or sprinkler systems, things at home would be better." First as an FAA licsensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic hopefully with a college degree you are over qualified for the positions of cell phone salesman and/or sprinkler salesman, but if you really think things would have been better at home I respectfully suggest you should have done that. Because whenever you do retire home is what is still there when the job is gone.

 

[Vimes]

So you're a mechanic for NWA currently? If thats true, then my everyones time has been wasted on this post......

I see and we are on the same team, right?

 

[Vimes]

Lot of Union plants too !

I have no green leaves but I would like to say I like your tag line or signature whatever its called

 

[Vimes]

12 hours, well give a cookie to old Vimes. I don't have much to say here that hasn't been said by the rest. I just wanted to thank you for giving us and the world your all. Congrats.

Although I think you are being facetious I will say thank you on behalf of the hard working mechs at DTW. By the way congrats, did you not get a new job?

 

[Vimes]

Let me guess...

You started as a mechanic at NWA in September of 2005, and now are a proud anti-union voice...

We all know who and what you are.

Tech,

Actually no I did not start at NWA in September of 2005, but close. I am not a now proud anti-union voice as you put it, I am anti-unions as they currently exist.

If you know who I am and what I am you are welcome to say so.

Your insinuation is that I am for some reason lesser, I believe that is simply a continuation of a previous AMFA mistake.

 

[Vimes]

... Not to mention setting the labor movement back 50+ years.

The labor movement never progressed, it could not be set back.

 

[HottootrotNyc]

I see and we are on the same team, right?

No, not even close to being on a team together let alone the same team. If I was a NWA employee, I'd rather to have moved on from the company then to work on a aircraft not maintained by a mechanic pre-2005. That's the team I would like to be associated with. It's to bad proper terminology can't be used for someone as yourself.

 

[HottootrotNyc]

Your insinuation is that I am for some reason lesser, I believe that is simply a continuation of a previous AMFA mistake.

I doubt it's a continuation of anything from AMFA, more than likely the fact that you probably crossed a picket line. I also doubt he/she meant to insinuate you were lesser but probably in fact meant it, if you in deed crossed a picket line.

 

[HottootrotNyc]

not really.

in general, it is important to read opinions from different angles.. so it appears to the reader in another way.. helping form balanced perspectives.

If it was coming from a mechanic employeed by NWA pre-2005, that would be a normal thing to do and say. Considering it's coming from a current NWA mechanic, I think it's exactly the opposite and I personally have no desire to hear someones opinion, who more then likely crossed a picket line.

Just like when I have the misfortune of flying with one of our SCAB Pilot's at CAL. I choose not to go beyond any talk that doesn't pertain to work related, no matter how "Nice" or "Cool" the person appears. All they do is further weaken our industry, ranks, and pay/benefits. So for me personally, it makes perfect sense not to want to speak to these individuals personally.

 

[dapoes]

So for me personally, it makes perfect sense not to want to speak to these individuals personally.

Im sure if he knew the "real you" he would feel the same.

 

[brokenwrench]

I choose not to go beyond any talk that doesn't pertain to work related, no matter how "Nice" or "Cool" the person appears. All they do is further weaken our industry, ranks, and pay/benefits. So for me personally, it makes perfect sense not to want to speak to these individuals personally.

Sums it up perfect!

With that said I have worked most my career as an AMT for Delta and a few years as an AMT a major with the IAM as our union. I have enough experience to cast my vote. I imagine this goes for the other AMT's involved.

Time for the IAM to get off its duff and call for a vote. Union or not lets move on. Get this merger completed and push for pay/bennies commensurate with the worlds largest airline!

 

[southwind]

I had three choices. Accept it, strike, or quit. Yes, I could have gone on strike. It would have been fired most likely and been the only one outside the hangar with a sign so that was a non option. I really couldn't quit either. Tough to explain that one when you get home. "Today they took away my pension. I showed them, I quit." That left me with the accept option. I'm 100% sure if I had taken the quit option and gone to work selling cell phones or sprinkler systems, things at home would be better. I don't think I would enjoy those jobs though. That is why I choose accep

First I doubt , very seriously, that even with the pay-cuts taken at Tech-ops, that you would have made as much selling cell phones or sprinklers !
Second, I personally know 3 people, who took the first severance package offered, when riffing started , to sell items like the ones you listed above and guess what........................a few years later, they're back at Delta...................minus "ALL" their seniority !

The grass is not always greener on the other side !