U To Shut Down?

[Walmartgreeter]

No one....no one

crosses....

except USA320pilot...he seems to think he can do it all...

[post="201392"][/post]​

USA320 is a traitor. He WILL cross. He is a disgrace. He is persona non grata among the true U pilots at USairways. He commutes to another base because the pilots at PIT will not fly with him. He is a joke at his old reserve unit because he tried to involve his fellow airman in a vitamin selling scheme. The list goes on. All of you...take the time to ask who the Captain is on the flight you are working. If it is 320, let him know you KNOW his stance on UNION activities. Best. Greeter.

 

[Jennyann]

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Off topic here folks(Sorry) !!!!

HEY, MCI Transplant !!!

What the F**K is wrong with the KC CHIEFS, I bet them HUGE last sunday, and "lost my SHORTS" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
Go Patriots

[post="201508"][/post]​

Dont feel bad....They didnt suck as much as my Cowboys!!! 🙁

 

[wench]

I will not be a scab!!!

Will not cross picket line...

CWA'er....

 

[repeet]

I will not be a scab!!!

Will not cross picket line...

CWA'er....

[post="201682"][/post]​

Thank-you. I think all of the Unionized groups on the property are unified on this.

The real question is who will get to strike first. Are all of the Unionized groups bound by the Railway Labor Act?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Are all of the Unionized groups bound by the Railway Labor Act?

[post="201696"][/post]​

I'd put it slightly differently. All unions at any airline fall under the provisions of the RLA, as does the company in dealing with those unions.

enilria said something in another thread that I agree with. It seems contrary to all logic that a judge would allow the company to escape all it's obligations under the RLA while, at the same time, forcing any union to remain within the constraints of the RLA. Of course, judges and logic sometimes part company.

It is interesting that I have been able to find no instance of a judge allowing contract abrogation and forbidding a strike by the affected union since section 1113 was enacted. Nor have I seen any of the legal opinions quoted in the media cite instances where it happened.

Jim

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

When U shuts down, will the IAM and CWA be manning the picket lines for years to follow, like the Eastern IAM guys did?....

[post="201379"][/post]​

(beat me to this line! )

I have a question: one of the first SuperKmarts opened about ten years ago, I noticed the UFCW unionists walking the picket line for years.

One day I asked them "where did your shoes come from and please tell me the brand of your television appliance at home?"

They didn't know, didn't care and didn't understand the connection.

Practice what you preach.

 

[eolesen]

It is interesting that I have been able to find no instance of a judge allowing contract abrogation and forbidding a strike by the affected union since section 1113 was enacted. Nor have I seen any of the legal opinions quoted in the media cite instances where it happened.

[post="201717"][/post]​

That's because U and the unions are blazing fairly new trail....

There have been other cases where S1113 was enacted, but none which fall under the RLA.

It seems contrary to all logic that a judge would allow the company to escape all it's obligations under the RLA while, at the same time, forcing any union to remain within the constraints of the RLA. Of course, judges and logic sometimes part company.

You've got two subsets of law being used here -- bankruptcy and labor. They intermingle, but not by much.

RLA defines things like contracts never expire as they do under Taft-Hartley, and the NMB has to be involved before self help can be enacted. It also permits closed-shops, even in right-to-work states. None of that is being violated. The RLA still requires the company to recognize the union as a collective bargaining unit, and doesn't permit the company to declare an open shop.

Bankruptcy law permits -any- contracts to be voided if it is in the best interest of the creditors. S1113 adds an additional hurdle that didn't exist prior to 1983, and requires the company to negotiate before the contracts can be voided.



And while it may not appear that way right now, you've got far better protection and rights to due process than any of the secured or unsecured creditors do in this bankruptcy.

Using aircraft and airport leases as a parallel, the company doesn't even need to meet with those creditors -- US gets 60 days free use of the asset, and can reject it without any recourse by the creditor except to wait in line with everyone else who didn't get paid. Oh, and by the way, the creditor also is stuck paying off the cost of those assets and finding someone else to use it.

So yes, things really $uck right now, but it could have been much worse. Ask anyone who was at Continental in 1983.

 

[ua767fo]

USA320 is a traitor. He WILL cross. He is a disgrace. ..........(omited)....Best. Greeter.

[post="201537"][/post]​

Greeter,
Lets not forget that the entire working USAir pilot group SCABBED the IAM strike, circa 1992. That is a disgrace! We're you one of them? I dont recall ANY pilots honoring the IAM line. In fact, I remember the self rightous MEC chairman saying that "we need to fly empty airplanes to really hurt the company". Scabbing is digracefull, I personally doubt that USA320Pilot would scab.

DENVER, CO

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well laid out, Former ModerAAtor. As you say, the crux of the issue is the difference between BK law and the RLA. 1113 was (is) something of a bridge between the two, but is somewhat ambiguous and largely untested ground as it pertains to events after a contract abrogation.

Like I said, it just seems illogical to let the company ignore the checks and balances of the RLA on one hand while holding the union to the letter of the RLA on the other. But, as I also said, judges and logic sometimes take different paths.

Jim

 

[Dizel8]

"Scabbing is digracefull, I personally doubt that .....Pilot would scab".

I don't, not for a second and the fliboi would be the second one to cross

Best of luck to y'all.

 

[N924PS]

Greeter,
Lets not forget that the entire working USAir pilot group SCABBED the IAM strike, circa 1992. That is a disgrace! We're you one of them? I dont recall ANY pilots honoring the IAM line. In fact, I remember the self rightous MEC chairman saying that "we need to fly empty airplanes to really hurt the company". Scabbing is digracefull, I personally doubt that USA320Pilot would scab.

DENVER, CO

[post="201757"][/post]​

Technically, you are only a scab if you cross your own union's picket line.

Can you direct me a source that can verify your statement about the MEC Chairman's comment? I do not recall that statement being made.

Many at ALPA feel that in the last 2 rounds of givebacks they haven lost more than a fair share in order to subsidize other employee groups lesser concessions.

If Butch Schofield had taken the IAM to task in 1992 intstead of rolling over, current managment wouldn't be fighting the same battles 12 years later. When you have a group that will sabotage and vandalize airplanes and equipment or physically injure or intimidate workers, I guess you have to tread lightly. But maybe not under CH11.

When the AFA strikes in sympathy if Judge Mitchell kills the USAirways F/A's pension plan, let's see if UA767FO honors that line. I'll bet not.

 

[MCI transplant]

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Off topic here folks(Sorry) !!!!

HEY, MCI Transplant !!!

What the F**K is wrong with the KC CHIEFS, I bet them HUGE last sunday, and "lost my SHORTS" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's
Go Patriots

[post="201508"][/post]​

😉 Would you believe? Need a new Coach???? Team is there, but can't seem to get it all together!!! Sound familiar??? :unsure:

 

[Winglet]

In a presentation today the Boyd Group again said that US Airways was finished by February unless something "miraculous" happens.

 

[Rico]

It is interesting that I have been able to find no instance of a judge allowing contract abrogation and forbidding a strike by the affected union since section 1113 was enacted. Nor have I seen any of the legal opinions quoted in the media cite instances where it happened.

Which is why the National Unions will not let it go that far. Sure, they will talk tough, and make bold statements in the media, but...

The LAST thing they want is for the "question" of what happens after a contract is abrogated in an airline BK. It is that question, that while remaining unanswered, provides Labor with what little remaining leverage they have in BK proceedings.

Labor no longer has the legislative muscle to enact reforms like they did in the Lorenzo-era, so whatever precedent is set in the Airways case will be pretty much the reality they will have to deal with from here on out.

THAT is not something that the National Unions are willing to chance.

 

[delldude]

Which is why the National Unions will not let it go that far. Sure, they will talk tough, and make bold statements in the media, but...

The LAST thing they want is for the "question" of what happens after a contract is abrogated in an airline BK. It is that question, that while remaining unanswered, provides Labor with what little remaining leverage they have in BK proceedings.

Labor no longer has the legislative muscle to enact reforms like they did in the Lorenzo-era, so whatever precedent is set in the Airways case will be pretty much the reality they will have to deal with from here on out.

THAT is not something that the National Unions are willing to chance.

[post="201882"][/post]​

sing your song of giving in......but the creditors will decide,if in the face of ongoing labor strife..(like is showing its ugly head now) if its in their best interests to go on...and if its like the future bookings....i'd say get your afairs in order.... 😱